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Consulo
Consulo  10768 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
9 May 2013 - 12:09 AM

Asked this on the adobe facebook page earlier:


Quote: If one is a user of CS4/5/6 and Microsoft or Apple release a new OS, can you confirm whether or not you would continue to support these products in so far as that people would still be able to use those products and not have them 'brick', and thus forcing them on to the new cloud system?

Got this reply:


Quote: CS4,5 and 6 will still work on their supported operating systems. Hard to say what changes MS/Apple will make to their OS'

Very cagey reply that doesn't answer my question. I've asked for clarification and will post up any reply that I get.

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redhed17
redhed17  8666 forum posts England
9 May 2013 - 4:00 AM

What Adobe are going to offer is no more 'Cloud' than it is now. It only has to connect to Adobe once a month to confirm that you are still paying the subscription, if you're not it stops. You don't need a fat internet connection, only 'an' internet connection once a month.

Piracy as a reason for this change is b*ll*x, this cloud version may be bypassed as easily as the current version, (time will tell) because the current version gets in touch with Adobe on installation to confirm that it is genuine, and then periodically checks it is a 'proper' version, and so is no different to cloud version. The hackers either fake the connections to Adobe and/or block connections to the internet, which you would imagine they may able to be done with the new version. What it is all about is a constant revenue stream for Adobe, with little benefit to the user. Yes, you may get constant updates, but with no need to deliver a load of 'big' updates/features, for each new version to tempt upgraders and new users, because they money is coming in all the time, what is the incentive to innovate as much? And if you are a new user who is tempted by a new feature, will a subscription look that attractive? I dont think so, whatever the new feature.

With their upgrades to Photoshop, Professionals aside, they probably haven't been able to have enough 'Wow' features to tempt 'normal' people to upgrade often enough. The advice was always upgrade every other version or more to make it worthwhile. Adobe tried to block that behaviour by limiting how many versions back you could update from. This obviously hasn't created enough revenue for them. So they think of a business model were people pay all the time, or eff off, because they're probably the users who don't upgrade everytime anyway. :-/ Their theory is that their core business users are large enough in number, and will sign up, to keep a steady cash flow to hopefully make up for the users they lose. It's a brave move. Which I hope blows up in their face obviously, but I don't think it will. Businesses factor in such costs, were individuals don't/can't, and as long as Adobe don't up the prices and get too greedy, once they have them, they'll probably keep them. And once it works for them, others will follow with truly cloud services. And if it does work, don't think that Lightroom won't follow suit. What you have your images/business built around our software, and all your images catalogued! Then you'll probably pay to keep it all working as it should.

Where it could prove sticky for them is with Educational users, who I think, at least in schools, will not be willing to pay for a subscription for every computer, rather than paying for a bulk licence as they do now. I was working in a school tonight and talked to an IT teacher who said that the school would probably not be going over to subscripions, and will stick with the CS5 they have on their computers now. Schools are tending to lock down the data passing in and out, as their IT dept's put tighter and tighter restrictions in place, and having a program that needs to contact base every month is not attractive to them. Plus, how many academic weeks are there a year, about 30? If so you'd be paying for 20 odd weeks when no one was using it. The school above may have bought CS5 when it came out, and so there are no costs beyond the initial expense, and so the longer they keep it, the less the per-month cost becomes, whereas now they would be paying the same every month, and that may even increase as time goes on. :-(

A petition may get Adobe's attention from a bad PR point of view, but the only thing that will get their attention is users voting with their feet by moving, or just doing nothing and sticking with what they have. No need to move to anything else if what you have now does what you want. Yes, you may want to give the finger to Adobe and find some other software, but why cut off your nose to spite your face? If it's working for you, use it. If it stops working for you, then you've probably stopped your subscription. Wink lol

And if you have a 'perpetual licence' (which is what you have btw, you don't own anything but a licence) version of Photoshop, and Apple or M$ decide to bring out a new OS which cripples your version of Photoshop, then I don't expect that to be Adobe's problem. If Apple or M$ cripple your software through an update, then they are at fault, not Adobe. And you either choose to update your computer/OS or not.

I think I will be saving as layered Tiffs from now on, and maybe even re-saving PSDs as Tiffs and not relying on PSDs from now on, as who knows whether I'll have Photoshop beyond CS6. Probably not if the only option is a subscription upgrade in the future.

Sorry for the waffle, but I was a bit bored and wanted to get all that off my chest after reading the rest of the thread. lol

779HOB
779HOB  21034 forum posts United Kingdom
9 May 2013 - 6:40 AM


Quote: Where it could prove sticky for them is with Educational users,

Just on the education thing, I work in education and I doubt we will pay anything like the "normal" user rate for subscriptions. I can currently download the entire CS6 suite for 12 a year. It is in Adobe's and Microsoft's interest to give us very cheap software so we train the future working population on their products.

What we would like is a pay by use scheme - where we pay when the program is opened not just on installation. We have about 2000 PCs and MACs - all with the CS6 suite on and many other packages. Currently we have to buy 2000 licences as we need students to be able to access from any PC. So if we could install but only pay when it's used we would save even more.

Subscription will only be like buying your car on finance - it might just make it affordable for people who can't stump up the full price in one hit.

Last Modified By 779HOB at 9 May 2013 - 6:42 AM
Evertonian
9 May 2013 - 8:47 AM


Quote: Subscription will only be like buying your car on finance - it might just make it affordable for people who can't stump up the full price in one hit.

If that proves to be true then there will not be a problem, but I very much doubt it. I prefer to buy my new cars for cash to avoid interest rates and the same will apply to PS, dependent upon the sort of notional interest rate applied.

If you buy PSElements every other version er, 5, 7 , 9 and then 11, an outlay of perhaps 50.00 evey two years that is 50p per week. I doubt that the licence fee will be that low.

Gaucho
Gaucho e2 Member 122334 forum postsGaucho vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
9 May 2013 - 10:14 AM

Except that Elements won't be going on the cloud.....yet.

mikehit
mikehit  56736 forum posts United Kingdom11 Constructive Critique Points
9 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

I know this is taking a pessimistic view, but suppose LR/PSE go 'cloud'. All that work I have done with existing images is the metadata accessible by other programmes? I know LR has the option to embed the metadata into the file as opposed to the xmp sidecar but can non-Adobe programmes read it if you do embed it?

Gaucho
Gaucho e2 Member 122334 forum postsGaucho vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
9 May 2013 - 11:58 AM

I would be very surprised if they could.

seahawk
seahawk e2 Member 7577 forum postsseahawk vcard United Kingdom
9 May 2013 - 1:04 PM

I contributed to this discussion yesterday, did all the usual things, clicked the 'add' button etc. All seemed fine.
Today I look in to see how the discussion is going and find my post has vanished. Perhaps someone on the staff could suggest a reason why?

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318459 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
9 May 2013 - 1:12 PM


Quote: Perhaps someone on the staff could suggest a reason why?

Nothing has been deleted. It must not have been added - maybe you refreshed the page before the post was added or something like that.

seahawk
seahawk e2 Member 7577 forum postsseahawk vcard United Kingdom
9 May 2013 - 1:25 PM

Hi Pete

No, it seemed to have been added normally.
Very weird!!

JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53675 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
9 May 2013 - 2:27 PM


Quote: Hi Pete
No, it seemed to have been added normally.
Very weird!!

Well epZ is a cloud service Wink so maybe the monthly payment issue ...


Interesting point from mikehit If you can't access your catalogue and tags without Adobe subscriptions !
You Own the pictures, but just can't find them without paying Adobe.

seahawk
seahawk e2 Member 7577 forum postsseahawk vcard United Kingdom
9 May 2013 - 2:45 PM

I can't be bothered to retype the submission I (supposedly) sent in yesterday as the content has been covered by others making the same points.
Suffice to say that

a) this could be a massive own-goal for Adobe on top of the last own-goal of LR4 which has had a lot of problems and p****d off many users. Version 5 may redress that, it seems fine so far, but as it's not generally released yet Adobe are currently 0-2 down with half-time approaching, IMO;

b) if LR becomes cloud-only in the future I won't be playing but switching to Aperture. Apple must be laughing!

Hope this post sticks!

lemmy
lemmy  71946 forum posts United Kingdom
9 May 2013 - 2:54 PM


Quote:
Interesting point from mikehit If you can't access your catalogue and tags without Adobe subscriptions !
You Own the pictures, but just can't find them without paying Adobe.

That doesn't apply, luckily, because the files are wherever you put them on your machine. Lightroom is a database, it doesn't contain your files, it merely references them. It never uses the actual files.

If you look in your images folder or wherever you put them the they are. What you won't have is the thumbnails or any preview inages you asked it to make, any edits made in Lightroom or the keywords, since these are contained in the database that is Lightroom.

Even if Lightroom did operate from the cloud, as neither it nor Photoshop will, it would not matter in that respect.

psiman
psiman  10551 forum posts Wales
9 May 2013 - 4:21 PM


Quote: Lightroom is a database, it doesn't contain your files, it merely references them. It never uses the actual files.


True but if ultimately you weren't able to access the LR Catalogue any changes you'd made, Collections, Saved Prints etc. would no longer be available.

However I do believe the subscription based approach isn't the model they intend to use for LR.

Simon

JJGEE
JJGEE  96353 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
9 May 2013 - 5:56 PM


Quote: Apple must be laughing!

Why ?
They appear to have abandoned Aperture completely.

And of course it only works on Apple's OS so that rules out all Microsoft OS users.

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