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Advice on 10 stop filter please.

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MiqsPix
MiqsPix  341 forum posts United Kingdom
8 Jun 2012 - 11:15 AM

I have recently bought a Hitech Pro 10 stop square 85mm filter for my P size filter holder. I have been practicing fitting it and getting used to setting it up on my Canon EOS 60D and the preparation for getting the correct exposure. I read however that it is possible to use "Exposure simulation" to "see through" the filter, when fitted, and possibly then use exposure compensation to achieve the correct settings. Or is it all guesswork? Does this mean that in live view I can see the actual image change when setting exposure compensation, or do I have to switch between live view and the exposure simulation menu all the time. I have enabled expo sim and tried it but cannot see any apparent change in live view when I change exposure comp. I have made some test shots and CAN see the change in the finished image but can I see it in real time in live view?

Also I notice that when I fit the filter in the nearest of the three slots in my holder, the gasket does not fit snug to the lens. There is a slight gap between filter gasket and lens rim. I would have thought some light would get in here. Am I correct or am I missing something?

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JohnParminter
8 Jun 2012 - 11:49 AM

My advice.

Without filter.
Select WB. This will vary on type of filter you have, I set 10,000K for a Lee one to remove the blue cast. You may have a red IR pollution cast on the Hitech one, I had and the reason I ditched it.
Select ISO.
Select aperture you want for DOF.
Select shutter speed and note value for an exposure you want without the 10 stop filter, use any ND grad or polariser you need at this point.
Set focus then switch to manual focus or lock it somehow depending on your lens/camera.
Insert 10 stop filter.
Slow the shutter speed by 10 stops. For example if you had 1/30sec without filter it will now be 30 seconds with filter. Beyond 30 secs you will need the bulb feature and a lockable remote release I'd say.
Replace eyepiece with blank.
Take shot.
Review WB and adjust if necessary or sort in PP.

There is no need for guess work once you have experimented with your particular 10 stop filter to determine its actual density and effects on WB it will have. You can of course vary the length of the exposure by varying aperture and ISO.

I never use Live view so can't advise on that sorry but I doubt the camera can focus or meter through the 10 stop filter, mine can't.

Last Modified By JohnParminter at 8 Jun 2012 - 12:07 PM
Ewanneil
Ewanneil  41118 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jun 2012 - 11:55 AM


Quote: My advice.

Without filter.
Select WBThis will vary on type of filter you have, I set 10,000K for a Lee one to remove the blue cast.
Select ISO.
Select aperture you want for DOF.
Select shutter speed and note value for an exposure you want without the 10 stop filter, use any ND grad or polariser you need at this point.
Set focus then switch to manual focus or lock it somehow depending on your lens/camera.
Insert 10 stop filter.
Slow the shutter speed by 10 stops.
Replace eyepiece with blank.
Take shot.
Review WB and adjust if necessary or sort in PP.

There is no need for guess work once you have experimented with your particular 10 stop filter to determine its actual density and effects on WB it will have. You can of course vary the length of the exposure by varying aperture and ISO.

I never use Live view so can't advise on that sorry but I doubt the camera can focus or meter through the 10 stop filter, mine can't.

Great advice. I've already written it down for future reference. I hope you don't mind.

Ewan

Last Modified By Ewanneil at 8 Jun 2012 - 11:56 AM
MeanGreeny
8 Jun 2012 - 12:09 PM

A HiTech 10 stop recently tested in 'Advanced Photographer' Magazine turned out to be 11 stops.

To help you calculate the new exposure time, download my easy calculator on my website: SimonLuptonPhotography.co.uk.

The instructions are on the PDF sheet as well as the Download page itself.

The sheet works well for all ND filters [not Grads] from 1 to well over 11 stops.

HTH

saltireblue
saltireblue Site Moderator 43842 forum postssaltireblue vcard Norway23 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jun 2012 - 12:25 PM

...and use mirror lock-upSmile

mikehit
mikehit  56329 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jun 2012 - 12:37 PM

I'm not sure MLU is necessary - the exposure times with 10-stop filters is generally so long that the vibration caused by the mirror will not even register.

saltireblue
saltireblue Site Moderator 43842 forum postssaltireblue vcard Norway23 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jun 2012 - 12:46 PM


Quote: I'm not sure MLU is necessary - the exposure times with 10-stop filters is generally so long that the vibration caused by the mirror will not even register.

OK---I've learnt something today as wellSmile

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73852 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jun 2012 - 1:03 PM


Quote: You may have a red IR pollution cast on the Hitech one, I had and the reason I ditched it.

They have sorted that one John.

As has been said.

You can use live view to help position other grads (Johns right you cant focus or meter accuratly with it - do that without filter attached), not ideal but it does work, and more accurate than placing the grad first. Make sure you cover the viewfinder as you can get light leaks on such long exposures. (I did a blog post which shows what you can get if you dont). Dont worry about white balance, correct this in RAW - the Hitech has a greener tinge than the LEE one (my current LEE one is pretty neutral, tho the one I broke I had to set WB to ca 15K, so theres a great deal of variance).

To calculate exposure, use the value without filters, then either use the paper guide provided with it, or use a smartphone app, I tend to use my head using 1/30 sec = 30 sec exposure; and work up down from there, then allow a bit extra by gut feel for the amount of cloud movement over the brightest area).

Both my LEE and HiTech ones are closer to 11 stop, but this is probably due to moving clouds etc reducing contrast. Doesn't sound a lot but one stop with extreme ND's can be significant. Say the exposure for 10 stop should be say 4 minutes, at 11 stops this becomes 8 minutes. That said if you use RAW you can recover an underexposed image (but you may get some noise).

Other than that mirror lock up, ensure tripod head is tight, quickrelease plate is tight, try to shield the tripod with your body to prevent the wind moving it (obviously you cant do this if pointing into the wind). Dont worry if the image on the camera back has a caste, you can usually correct this pretty easily in RAW.

If theres a gap between the filter and Lens you probably have the filter holder assembled wrong (I had the same problem initially). it should be a pretty good seal.

Oh make sure all the screws in the assembly are tight or you may just end up with that tinkle sound of breaking glass!!! (yes talking from experiance) ...sorry the Hitech ones are plastic, but you get what I mean (the foam puts pressure on the fixings)

HTH

LesF
LesF e2 Member 7176 forum postsLesF vcard 8 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jun 2012 - 1:30 PM


Quote: Oh make sure all the screws in the assembly are tight or you may just end up with that tinkle sound of breaking glass!!! (yes talking from experiance)

Snap

or more an oh s**t feeling

User_Removed
8 Jun 2012 - 2:35 PM

If you have an iPhone, there is a very handy free app called Longtime that will calculate the exposure for any degree of ND.


...and just to repeat the advice from above - do be sure to close the viewfinder eyepiece shutter before making the exposure.

.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 8 Jun 2012 - 2:36 PM
MiqsPix
MiqsPix  341 forum posts United Kingdom
8 Jun 2012 - 3:13 PM

Thanks for all the great advice. I have saved it all.

Graysta
Graysta  91134 forum posts England
8 Jun 2012 - 8:23 PM


Quote: If you have an iPhone, there is a very handy free app called Longtime that will calculate the exposure for any degree of ND.

Oh **** the i Phone app
Get the variable from 7day or other just as good as a 10stop in Britain we dont get enough light to warrant a 10 in my part of the world +3or6 blurs most thing on a good day.On a bad day a bottle of red does it

Last Modified By Graysta at 8 Jun 2012 - 8:25 PM
psiman
psiman  10551 forum posts Wales
8 Jun 2012 - 11:58 PM

I'm using a Lee 10 Stop Big Stopper on a 40D and use it with Live View most of the time. I'd agree that its best to manually focus and find the underlying exposure length for the given aperture before fitting the filter. I then use manual exposure and the RGB histogram in Liveview to adjust the exposure and if the exposure time works out at less than 30 secs then Liveview will handle it automatically. If its longer than 30 secs then you'll have to use Bulb mode and hold the shutter open for the required exposure length. BTW for a 10 stop filter the exposure time is 1,024 x the base exposure without the filter, which is close enough to 1,000 i.e. if the underlying exposure is 1/50 sec without the 10x Filter, with the 10 Stop filter it will be 1000/50 = 20 secs. I find this works pretty well especially for longer exposures.

Simon

MiqsPix
MiqsPix  341 forum posts United Kingdom
11 Jun 2012 - 2:08 PM

I have investigated the gap left my the ill fitting gasket and it apparently is a known manufacturing problem and now all new Hitech ND 10 stop filters are to be supplied with a modification to the gasket. Unfortunately it is not retrospective so all previous buyers like me will not be given any help from Hitech. Fortunately my supplier is hoping to build something using the gasket foam used by Hitech to make a better seal with the lens so I shall post back with any results.

JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53584 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
11 Jun 2012 - 4:16 PM

I did not like the slot type ND as it might leak light, so i got this screw in one and like it lots.

Light Craft Workshop 77mm ND500MC Filter

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