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Any substitute for 10 stop filters ?

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knackeredoldman


Quote: link

might be some help

- excellent!

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9 Sep 2009 - 10:55 PM

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Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73848 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
9 Sep 2009 - 11:41 PM


Quote: If you want to do long exposures, going out at twilight and using a low iso and small aperture (high f-stop) is your best bet. It's a lot cheaper, too....

On a crop sensor one word springs to mind .... defraction.

The 400D will be OK at F16 (with a good lens) but any crop sensor with a higher pixel count you will fall foul of defraction even above F11 (you will see it as softning of the image) and it is noticable in any print >A4.

For me 10 stops seems a bit much, I'm experimenting with a 4 stop one from B+H, up till tonight I was unsure, just hope when I download the images from tonight they are as good on screen as they look on the back of the camera.

Well they better be, I missed the football Sad

Last Modified By Nick_w at 9 Sep 2009 - 11:45 PM
joolsb
joolsb  927115 forum posts Switzerland38 Constructive Critique Points
10 Sep 2009 - 8:08 AM


Quote: On a crop sensor one word springs to mind .... defraction.

Thanks for reminding me. Diffraction is another good reason to shoot at twilight. You won't need to stop down too much to get the length of exposure you're looking for.

MikeA
MikeA  91168 forum posts England
10 Sep 2009 - 12:06 PM


Quote: with a higher pixel count you will fall foul of defraction even above F11 (you will see it as softning of the image) and it is noticable in any print >A4.


From what I have seen of long exposure, the softening of the image is part of the effect that is trying to be achieved. Correct ?? That being the case defraction will not matter.

Last Modified By MikeA at 10 Sep 2009 - 12:08 PM
sut68
sut68  101994 forum posts England76 Constructive Critique Points
10 Sep 2009 - 1:25 PM

I do early starts, I do late finishes and with my 10 stopper I can now shoot in the daytime and get some surreal effects using the light available at these times ... like this [shot at approximately 2pm in the afternoon].
This one [approximately 1.30pm].
This one [approximately 3.30pm].

Yes, shooting in low light conditions at the beginning and end of the day would be the optimum, but using a 10 stopper affords you another option for middle of the day shooting. I wanted one for ages and kept putting it off, but I'm glad I made the plunge.

Be aware though that a 10 stop filter alters the IR transmission and you will get some noticeable colour casts and colour shifting that can be difficult to correct, hence why my examples are all mono.

HTH,
Paul

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73848 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
10 Sep 2009 - 2:51 PM

It explains quite a bit Paul (IR) - I take it, it removes more IR ? So I would suspect a blue / green tint ?

Are you still using the HiTech - I've just ditched them in favour of Lee for the grads due to colour castes on my last set. - it was OK on the D80, but I guess the IR filters on camera are differant.

I'm trying B+H 4 stop one tho its a pain as its a screw on and you get vignetting when used in combo with grads @ 10mm end of the siggy.

sut68
sut68  101994 forum posts England76 Constructive Critique Points
10 Sep 2009 - 3:18 PM

No, more magenta/red Nick. Don't quite understand it all myself and I'm sure you're better equipped to explain it, but this was what was quickly explained to me by the guys at Lee being the problem with the version they were developing.

The main problem with my HiTech one is that you don't get an all over cast, as it affects different colours differently. So colour correction if nigh on impossible at times.

The B+H one is more colour accurate again, but as you say, the screwing and unscrewing is a pain.

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73848 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
10 Sep 2009 - 5:28 PM

I wonder if HiTech are using polychromatic dyes (blends of different colours to give black / Grey) that would explain why is affects differnt colours. In printing the light can have an effect on the percieved colours under differnt light sources - M&S insist colours are matched under their specific flourescent lights. Also I'm wondering if theres a wavelength shift of the IR - this could be made worse by the resin used to coat the filter, and also the polyester used for the filters - could be another reason why the B+H ones are better.

MikeA
MikeA  91168 forum posts England
10 Sep 2009 - 7:03 PM

B+H x10 filter

Quote: With a light intensity reduction of ten f-stops, this B+W Neutral Density Filter has a slightly stronger warm tone than the ND 106. Its principal field of application is the observation and documentation of industrial processes with extreme brightness, such as steel furnaces, incinerators, glowing filaments in halogen- and other bulbs. The filter factor is 1000x.

Description / characteristics from the Schneider web site.

knackeredoldman


Quote: No, more magenta/red Nick. Don't quite understand it all myself and I'm sure you're better equipped to explain it, but this was what was quickly explained to me by the guys at Lee being the problem with the version they were developing.

The main problem with my HiTech one is that you don't get an all over cast, as it affects different colours differently. So colour correction if nigh on impossible at times.

The B+H one is more colour accurate again, but as you say, the screwing and unscrewing is a pain.

I have the B&W one (I didn't realise B&H made them but they must be smokin' ;o) ).

In decent daylight I have images that show no colour cast issues. However, in twighlight then you do get some weirdness, again magenta-ish. Having said that, my favourite output with this is mono too.

All in all, I would not be without mine now and I have suffered no issues with sharpness falling off but on checking histograms I would say that mine is actually closer to 12 stops.

Cheers,

Ade

MikeA
MikeA  91168 forum posts England
10 Sep 2009 - 8:15 PM


Quote: I have the B&W one (I didn't realise B&H made them but they must be smokin' ;o) ).

Oooppps.... Wink

Martin54
Martin54 e2 Member 8497 forum postsMartin54 vcard United Kingdom
11 Sep 2009 - 1:28 PM


Quote: If you are after the effect of a non-graduated ND filter and have a Nikon D200, D300 (and I assume D3 etc) then just use the multiple exposure mode - up to 10 shots combined in camera. .

I tried this recently and it seems to work very well - see my latest upload, great tip from Keith.

Martin

Nickscape
Nickscape  8694 forum posts England9 Constructive Critique Points
22 Sep 2009 - 5:09 PM


Quote: Quote:If you are after the effect of a non-graduated ND filter and have a Nikon D200, D300 (and I assume D3 etc) then just use the multiple exposure mode - up to 10 shots combined in camera. .I tried this recently and it seems to work very well - see my latest upload, great tip from Keith.

Martin

How is the quality of the NEF file? do you notice any difference to a normal exposure!? what a grea tip!

paulcr
paulcr  91536 forum posts Ireland9 Constructive Critique Points
22 Sep 2009 - 6:04 PM

Could you take a cokin 10 stop filter (much cheaper than the 77mm screw in version) and glue it to a 77mm adapter?
Paul

Martin54
Martin54 e2 Member 8497 forum postsMartin54 vcard United Kingdom
22 Sep 2009 - 10:19 PM


Quote: How is the quality of the NEF file? do you notice any difference to a normal exposure!? what a grea tip!

The NEF is excellent, just like a normal exposure. In the example, the combined "50 second" NEF is as good as a single 5 second exposure.

Martin

Last Modified By Martin54 at 22 Sep 2009 - 10:23 PM

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