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Anybody got the new Sony RX100?

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NickHaigh
NickHaigh  2 United Kingdom
25 Jul 2012 - 9:59 AM

Im considering buying the new RX100 from Sony, i currently use the Canon S100 as my small go anywhere camera but im not too happy with the image quality. I would easily sacrifice the GPS for the extra 8MP so if anybody has one would you recommend it?

Nick

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25 Jul 2012 - 9:59 AM

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psiman
psiman  10551 forum posts Wales
25 Jul 2012 - 10:46 AM

Michael Reichmann on the Luminous Landscape site seems to rate it very highly as high quality carry around camera. Got me interested but will have to save the pennies Wink

ChrisV
ChrisV  7724 forum posts United Kingdom26 Constructive Critique Points
25 Jul 2012 - 1:05 PM

I have to say as someone who has not been a huge Sony fan, from the specs and the reports, with this camera they've come up with something pretty special. I can't see there's anything to touch it in this bracket. It's pricey of course, but it starts to make sense when you consider you're looking at CSS/SLR quality images, not compact-camera quality.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139388 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Jul 2012 - 2:17 PM

The compact market may be in its death throws against the onslaught of the ubiquitous camera phone.

Some manufacturers have decided the only way to keep it alive is by introducing high-quality high-price compacts which are DSLR/CSC replacements, of a sort anyway. It will be interesting to see if this strategy succeeds. I have my doubts.

ChrisV
ChrisV  7724 forum posts United Kingdom26 Constructive Critique Points
25 Jul 2012 - 4:00 PM

I don't think this really has a market as a DSLR replacement [it's a much more easily arguable point that may be the role of the CSC], but rather it will appeal to serious togs who want quality images in a small portable package [which is where this camera trumps any CSC].

I also don't see the compact jigging a terminal spasm [let alone a throw - isn't that a furniture cover?] anytime soon until camera phones are capable of a decent zoom range that doesn't involve transmogrifying your image into something akin to a watercolour executed by a monkey experiencing a severe epileptic episode.

There's still going to be a massive range of cameras for a massive range of people. I just think the RX100 wipes the floor with the various Canon, Fuji and Panasonic pocketables - so long as those pockets are deep enough. And I don't mean in order to accommodate the mass of the camera.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139388 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Jul 2012 - 4:30 PM


Quote: so long as those pockets are deep enough. And I don't mean in order to accommodate the mass of the camera.

Lol! Grin

NickHaigh
NickHaigh  2 United Kingdom
25 Jul 2012 - 10:06 PM

Chris, I totally agree!

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139388 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
25 Jul 2012 - 10:26 PM


Quote: phones are capable of a decent zoom range that doesn't involve transmogrifying your image into something akin to a watercolour executed by a monkey experiencing a severe epileptic episode.

Like the Nokia 808 phone - which beat the Olympus Pen E-PL2 for image quality in blind tests..... which suggests it wouldn't do too badly against something like a Canon 7D.

ChrisV
ChrisV  7724 forum posts United Kingdom26 Constructive Critique Points
25 Jul 2012 - 11:43 PM


Quote: phones are capable of a decent zoom range that doesn't involve transmogrifying your image into something akin to a watercolour executed by a monkey experiencing a severe epileptic episode.

Like the Nokia 808 phone - which beat the Olympus Pen E-PL2 for image quality in blind tests..... which suggests it wouldn't do too badly against something like a Canon 7D.

As I understand it that 'zooms' by cropping, so that any zoom is going to be fairly modest before there is significant image degradation even at the lowest ISOs. From what I read it achieves its best results by pixel binning even at its optimal settings. A 2x zoom would cut the pixels recorded from 40 megapixels to 10 and a four times zoom would take that down to a mere 2,500 [tiny] photosites. But it doesn't do that - it only offers a 2.8x zoom and then you've got a similar sized area and similar output to the average small-sensor cameraphone.

Which of course the 808 isn't - it's standout feature is the camera and the sensor is only marginally smaller than that in Nikon's 1 series cameras.

In spite of the fact that it's the size and cost of the RX100, zooming in a bit in moderately poor light, will I expect bear out my above comment.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139388 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2012 - 11:43 AM


Quote: As I understand it that 'zooms' by cropping, so that any zoom is going to be fairly modest

The zoom is 3x for stills and 4x for video. Which many people may find is enough for something that can be slipped into your shirt pocket. And that is the point isn't it? Why carry around an additional device, such as a compact, when your phone can give you excellent quality and lossless digital zoom?

The Nokia 808 is only the first phone of this type... there will be further developments. The writing is probably on the wall for compacts.

I wonder when we'll see the first Nikon or Canon phone? Wink

ChrisV
ChrisV  7724 forum posts United Kingdom26 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2012 - 12:24 PM

You can digitally 'zoom' on any camera if you can cope with the resultant loss of resolution. The way this device works is interesting because it uses that effect in reverse. It shoots at full resolution for 'unzoomed' images and combines pixels to increase sensitivity/dynamic range and so forth. If you haven't got those extra pixels in the first place you're stuck with the standard characteristics of a cameraphone.

The RX100 has a similar sensor size to this, but half the pixel count and an optical zoom.

I'm sure if you look at images from each at the native AoV of the 808, at its base ISO and with each downsampled to 8mp or less, the 808's output may well look as good or better.

Once you're in lower light conditions and/or zooming in by that factor of 2.8 you're going to be back to comparing the output of a 5/8Mp cameraphone with that of a large sensor compact.

The output of cameraphones will catch and perhaps exceed that of most current compacts. But by then many compacts will probably be using a similar approach to this Sony model and the gap will still exist.

At the moment the imaging technology paradigm means that bigger is usually better [at least in terms of quality]. Neither of these units are altering that paradigm, they're merely taking novel approaches to maximise the existing configurations.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139388 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2012 - 12:27 PM


Quote: You can digitally 'zoom' on any camera if you can cope with the resultant loss of resolution

Which is why digital zooms are a waste of time usually.

My Nokia N8 uses the same technology as in the 808 for video only, because the resolution is only 12Mp compared with 41Mp. Full HD video is 2Mp.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314893 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2012 - 5:36 PM


Quote: Im considering buying the new RX100 from Sony, i currently use the Canon S100 as my small go anywhere camera but im not too happy with the image quality. I would easily sacrifice the GPS for the extra 8MP

Have you looked at the fuji x100, the Canon G1X, Sigma DP2 Merrill, all have larger sensors(mostly APS-C) and better image quality

NickHaigh
NickHaigh  2 United Kingdom
28 Jul 2012 - 2:26 PM

Carrabose I don't want a Nokia phone, I have an iPhone! Paul, I want a camera that is small like my S100 so the g1x and x100 is definately a no no !

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139388 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jul 2012 - 2:29 PM

I think you will really struggle to get a camera, about the same size as the S100, which gives you notably better image quality. You are searching for a Holy Grail. Lol! Wink

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