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Are proper cameras doomed?

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Salsphotozine1
17 Oct 2012 - 10:36 PM

Couldn't agree more Paul. In a way it is the same with music. I am a guitarist (and singer) like a lot of guitarists I know I collect them too, they also all have varying characteristics and features , but it is as someone said earlier on in here, it is the person behind the instrument, the photographer in this case that makes the picture, not the camera itself ultimately, though good equipment is great, I too would rather see a good picture from a cheaper camera of whatever make or kind, than someone using a nikon say, that has no photography skills.
Toys are wonderful things though. These smartphones, as pointed out are more computer than phone now, mne is definitely more of a toy/gadget than a phone

Last Modified By Salsphotozine1 at 17 Oct 2012 - 10:38 PM
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lemmy
lemmy  71769 forum posts United Kingdom
18 Oct 2012 - 9:46 AM


Quote: mne is definitely more of a toy/gadget than a phone

Mine is more of a resource than a toy. I spend a lot of time in France and have an excellent Collins dictionary on the phone. I also spend a lot of time in places I don't know. The compass and GPS are invaluable there. The flashlight comes in handy on numerous occasions and the FM radio is superb when I am on a long train journey. I like to play music and can listen to my entire collection from the phone. The calculator is frequently useful and the voice recorder is good enough for recording commentaries for my Youtube videos.

Think of all the devices you'd need to carry to do all this! All this and it cost me 50 second hand.

I do make calls and text on it too on PAYG so it costs me about 40 per annum.

The one thing I don't do is take pictures or video with it. I have cameras and lenses that do that better Wink

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139392 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
18 Oct 2012 - 9:52 AM


Quote: Mine is more of a resource

My smartphone is definitely a resource. I hardly use it for calls or texting. But for checking email and web browsing, it's great. I even occasionally post on EPZ using it. Wink


Quote: The one thing I don't do is take pictures or video with it.

Having started this thread it may seem strange to some, but I rarely use it for this either. I bought my current device because its 12Mp camera was, at the time, considered to be the best out there. The reality is, I have found my usage of of the phone has little to do with photography. I still carry a decent compact (Canon S100 these days) around, but increasingly less - because the phone is my 'insurance' against getting caught out without an imaging device.

Salsphotozine1
18 Oct 2012 - 12:18 PM

You've got some good points there Lemmy, I also use mine for GPS, this was one of the things I bought it for too in conjunction with the camera to help record certain walks I do, particularly coastal ones (I am putting together a book on them). The other things you mention too, I have a torch on mine which has come in very handy quite a few times. I also have a recording device that I use to record my songs on, also very handy as though I use my simple little dictaphone still, if I get an idea could be just a melody, riff , a few lyrics before I start writing the song properly it is very useful. It also has a radio and good music system on it, also important to me, and even the bbc iplayer. Well, imagine if I was to carry each of these gadgets individually around with me!
All these things and my camera are on one small hand held device.
Carabosse reckon that's got to be the Nokia N8? That little baby is more of a camera than a phone anyway, there was a lot of criticism about the symbian operating system not being up to par on that cameraphone and other problems, phone freezing etc but they have upped the ante a lot since then and worked hard to overcome the problems they had back then when the N8 was released. It has often been said you cannot combine a camera with a smartphone/mini computer, as one or the other will suffer in some way, as said about Nokia N8 which was a case example. It's main selling point actually was and still is the camera, nobody else used or has got close to what they managed too achieve with it. They then released the pureview 808 which was something of an experiment and also a blueprint for their future cameraphones. This pureview used technology that literally blew cameraphones out of the water. They unveiled their 41mp camera sensor with Carl Zeiss lens, another of their piece de resistances, they use their technology to turn it into exceptionally good 5mp images, also high quality videos. The 'phone' I mentioned which is due to be released in early Novemeber (the Nokia Lumia 920) will be interesting as they have a completely new OS on it too and many people are getting really excited about what it will be able to do.
The iphone is used a lot for photography these days, I have noticed it creeping in to more and more professional use, controversially. Carabosse I believe you mentioned Pete or Peter one of the administrators on here even using it, if I am not mistaken. Sorry if I got that wrong as Im new to this site and finding my way around still. The iphone camera, even on the latest 5 series recently released still is not the best camera by any means, and on the iphones, it was only upped from a 5 to 8 mp with the 4s but yet the photography was still used from their phones a lot. This says a lot about the direction that cameraphones are heading.
There are better cameraphones than that, the one I have at present is one of them and mine is not the best either, that would be Nokia again, they still lead the way by far.
But my point is these cameras ARE getting better and evolving all the time, it really is a case of watch this space. Like it or not they look like they are here to stay and the technology is only going to get better on them.
Carabosse I could see where you were coming from right from the beginning of this thread and you have raised some very valid points here.
I have been using cameras since I was 11 and was given my first one by my Uncle, a photographer who owned 3 camera shops, my grandfather was also a photographer so the interest in definitely in the genes. I have used various ones over the years and do like to embrace new technology with an open mind. I am still very fond of my old faithful fujica film camera, which has exceptional quality to the photgraphs, unfortunately somebody damaged it though and I've been unable to get it fixed yet, but haven't given up on it.
In my gallery I am going to start off by puting some of my cameraphone images in and see what happens as a little experiment Smile

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139392 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
18 Oct 2012 - 3:20 PM


Quote: Carabosse reckon that's got to be the Nokia N8? That little baby is more of a camera than a phone anyway, there was a lot of criticism about the symbian operating system not being up to par on that cameraphone and other problems, phone freezing etc but they have upped the ante a lot since then and worked hard to overcome the problems they had back then when the N8 was released.

Correct. The firmware has been signicantly upgraded twice, first to Symbian Anna and then to Symbian Belle, since it was launched... which has made quite a difference.

For my personal usage, i.e. checking email and browsing the web a bit, the phone is just fine. I do like the size and shape of it too - much prefer it to the larger iPhone, Samsung Galaxy and other smartphones which are considered top notch. Ironically, though, its rather rounded shape makes it slightly awkward to use as a camera! But it will be very hard to replace, for sure. Smile

Salsphotozine1
19 Oct 2012 - 9:05 AM

It's a great cameraphone for sure. Two of my photos in here were taken with the n8 camera.
I heard about the upgrades improving the phone too.
I tested it for 1 month. Have always regretted handing it back and was always intending to get anotherat some stage, I still may. I love the design too, very well made. Cool blue for me Wink
I still haven't seen a phone of that quality in the design either, the metal casing really makes a difference.
Havent seen the iPhone 5 yet though, which sounds like the design is much better than theirusual brick. They have metal edging I think.
The Nokia still leads the way with their camera technology though by far, though the iPhone's
got much better since the 4s

Last Modified By Salsphotozine1 at 19 Oct 2012 - 9:09 AM
CDSINUK
CDSINUK  2223 forum posts England
19 Oct 2012 - 8:14 PM

havent seen any long exsposure i phone pictures, or a device for fitting a ND400 filter to one either? or am i living in the dark ages ? still would use the camera , for starters it looks cooler lol Smile

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139392 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
19 Oct 2012 - 9:22 PM


Quote: havent seen any long exsposure i phone pictures, or a device for fitting a ND400 filter to one either?

By the time you done all that, the subject has gone! Lol! Wink

Salsphotozine1
20 Oct 2012 - 10:45 AM

This is exactly the point Carabosse, all photography enthusiasts and diehards for using real equipment (me included) won't dispute what you're saying CDSINUK but as I said like it or not cameraphones look set to stay and they are definitely getting better.
Carabosse is spot on with what he is saying there, by the time you've set a proper camera up your shot can be lost.
I managed to capture a kingfisher for the first time ever recently, because I had my cameraphone with me, I would never have got the shot in time with one of my other cameras.
I've only ever seen one with my naked eye a couple of times before that, they are timid and very swift to depart and disappear when spotted.
So I like to get the benefits of both technologies rather than disbanden one and lose out on some good opportunities through principle, cutting off my nose to spite my face then , in my opinion.
Incidentally my photo I've uploaded for today is a case in point there.

Last Modified By Salsphotozine1 at 20 Oct 2012 - 10:48 AM
Newdevonian
20 Oct 2012 - 11:49 AM


Quote: Havent seen any long exsposure i phone pictures, or a device for fitting a ND400 filter to one either? or am i living in the dark ages ? still would use the camera , for starters it looks cooler lol Smile

Camera phones have their place as quick snappers for use on the web or on computer screens. (Carabosse is bound to say at this point, Well that is the majority). But is this a web site for snappers or photographers? If it is for snappers, I'm in the wrong place! I'm trying to be a photographer.
What about 500mm lenses, F1.4 and better, macro, Good noise performance, Bounce flash, tripod bushes, 64 Gig of storage and every other item in the photographic infrastructure. Plus the fact that I have yet to see a large print off a camera.

Newdevonian
20 Oct 2012 - 11:58 AM


Quote: mne is definitely more of a toy/gadget than a phone

Mine is more of a resource than a toy. I spend a lot of time in France and have an excellent Collins dictionary on the phone. I also spend a lot of time in places I don't know. The compass and GPS are invaluable there. The flashlight comes in handy on numerous occasions and the FM radio is superb when I am on a long train journey. I like to play music and can listen to my entire collection from the phone. The calculator is frequently useful and the voice recorder is good enough for recording commentaries for my Youtube videos.

Think of all the devices you'd need to carry to do all this! All this and it cost me 50 second hand.

I do make calls and text on it too on PAYG so it costs me about 40 per annum.

The one thing I don't do is take pictures or video with it. I have cameras and lenses that do that better Wink

Lemmy. You have hit the nail on the head! Your phone is jack of all trades and master of none. As a photographer you recognise the limitations of your phone camera, but use all its other features. If however, you were a full time author / translator. I suspect that you would use the latest multi-tome French / English dictionaries, that have every known word in them. You would then tolerate your camera phone.

Last Modified By Newdevonian at 20 Oct 2012 - 11:59 AM
lemmy
lemmy  71769 forum posts United Kingdom
20 Oct 2012 - 4:41 PM


Quote: Your phone is jack of all trades and master of none

Yes, it won't replace some specialist devices and couldn't without compromising on portability and battery life.

But look at the coverage from Syria, ordinary folk with their camera phones and video are showing us far more of what is going on than the professionals can. The technical quality is less than perfect but in a case like this a 50 phone camera is a more effective tool than the best multi-thousand pound professional camera.

In the case of my dictionary, it is faster, cheaper and more portable than the book version and on something that slips into my top pocket and which I always have with me for telephone purposes anyway. There is no technical reason that the largest and most comprehensive dictionary possible should not be put on a smart phone.

The reason that it is not is lack of demand, I would think.

Newdevonian
20 Oct 2012 - 5:31 PM


Quote: There is no technical reason that the largest and most comprehensive dictionary possible should not be put on a smart phone.

The reason that it is not is lack of demand, I would think.

I would suspect also that the publishers might be a little reticent in putting expensive dictionaries onto a 2.95 app. Some of the Technical dictionaries are well into 4 figures, as I know to my cost.

newfocus
newfocus  8644 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
20 Oct 2012 - 9:21 PM


Quote: Your phone is jack of all trades and master of none

Smart phones aren't really phones any more. At least not primarily.

They're personal computers. Not the kind that sits on your desk but the truly personal kind that's always with you, and that you install the software on that helps you be more efficient, more connected, more entertained, whatever suits you best. Taking pictures and making calls is just a tiny part of that mix.


Quote: There is no technical reason that the largest and most comprehensive dictionary possible should not be put on a smart phone.

There'd never be a need to - it's a connected device with access to the largest and most comprehensive set of information the human race has ever created Smile

Last Modified By newfocus at 20 Oct 2012 - 9:22 PM
lemmy
lemmy  71769 forum posts United Kingdom
21 Oct 2012 - 12:29 AM


Quote: it's a connected device with access to the largest and most comprehensive set of information the human race has ever created

Yes, once the entire world is connected to the internet.

In the meantime, given that I have 32gb of space on the micro sd in my 50 phone there is no reason at all that I should not take up maybe 2% of that space for a dictionary available even when I do not have an internet connection.

I was recently in a French speaking part of Africa where an internet connection is rare. The thing is, newfocus, that you assume that all of the world is like wherever you live. It isn't.

England is a country, not the world.

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