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Assaulted photographing a child who had been causing trouble

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Leif
Leif  9722 forum posts
9 Nov 2010 - 11:02 PM

I thought I'd describe my recent experience because it does indicate the attitude of some people to photography. I've had problems with some local kids causing trouble. Hammering on windows, maggots under the door, offensive notices glued to the car, that sort of thing. There have been perhaps 100 incidents over the course of a year. As it happens at night, it is hard to see them, but I've chased them, and I can recognise one. The police cannot do anything without names and/or addresses. So I decided to photograph them in daylight in a public place. All perfectly legal. Well, I did so, but the abuse was incredible. I had the sister of a girl threatening to punch me. I had explained what I was doing and why i.e. taking a picture to give to the police. I won't post the language used here but it is what they used to call 'salty'. And then her brother assaulted me, grabbing first my wrist, and then putting his free arm around my neck, despite my having explained to him the reasons for my actions. I got away, along with a photo of his car, so the police now know who they are and they can take action. As I was leaving, one of the kids who have harassed me cycles up, cool as a cucumber, and says "You were photographing a child, she's 15, we've called the police, you're going to be nicked". I found out later that the copper who arrived knew exactly who was taking the photos and why, and dismissed the request to arrest me. I spoke to him, and he is sorting out the kids. A PC and a civilian police worker have said that what I was doing was legal and quite understandable, although they pointed out that it does put one at risk of physical attack.

So if anyone else intends to photograph miscreants, do it from a distance, have an escape route handy, and preferably have a couple of friends nearby. Oh, and don't think about this unless you have previously made complaints to the police, so that they can check that your story holds water.

I must admit I was taken aback at the outcome. I should have used a long lens instead, at the risk of being mistaken for a peeping tom. I had not realised that there is so much ill informed hysteria surrounding photography, and that people are completely ill informed.

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scottishphototours

I once photographed school kids vandalising my property. The police told me that the photographs - even clear and obvious as they were - were inadmissable in court and therefore could not be used to prosecute any of those involved. My actions of photographing an under 16 were regarded as being more of an issue.

The result was to target those involved, approach their parents with the evidence and pursue them through the small claims court for damages, which we won.

The offer of a story and pictures to the press also seemed to sway them in their decision to pay for repairs to my property.

This happened 16 years ago - I'm not sure I would even take those pictures today...

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314931 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2010 - 1:11 AM

[quote]Assaulted photographing a child who had been causing trouble[quote]

Sounds to me like you were out asking for it Smile

Call the police and keep notes, sooner or later something will be done.

collywobles
10 Nov 2010 - 7:44 AM

I feel for anyone who lives in an area or situation where they are constantly bombarded with the kind of issues with neighbours/local children or even just a neighbourly dispute etc that Leif describes above. I think it was inadvisable and probably asking for more trouble in doing what he did, however as in most instances like this the Police do very little.

The only way to resolve any neighbour issues is to move.

Colin

TrevW
TrevW  4117 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Nov 2010 - 8:23 AM

It's not a camera that you should be shooting them with...

Unfortunately, this country is just festering with scum in every corner of every city. The law is weak and spineless to do anything about it and more often than not, protect the guilty whilst punishing the victim, and the scum know this. I'm just surprised we don't hear more stories of people taking the law into their own hands due to the frustration of being let down by those that should be protecting us all.

meercat
meercat  5278 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Nov 2010 - 8:30 AM

This may sound harsh, but in my opinion it is best not to chase kids who are causing trouble, as this is often what they want. The thrill of the chase. We had a few issues with it a couple of years ago (all very minor, the odd knock and run or rude gesture), and when my missus reacted they kept going, when we stopped reacting they stopped being such pains! (well directly towards our house anyway). I also remember being a young lad, and friends used to set off peoples car alarms (Not a heinous crime but annoying none the less) and the one guy who came rushing out angry was repeatedly targeted.

I am not advocating letting them get away with it, contact local community officers, or approach parents etc, just don't let the kids get what they want, a chase.

Ian-Munro
Ian-Munro  6200 forum posts Wales15 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2010 - 9:17 AM

Doooosh! under the patio wiv em! TongueWink

f8
f8  109169 forum posts England22 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2010 - 10:21 AM


Quote: It's not a camera that you should be shooting them with...

Unfortunately, this country is just festering with scum in every corner of every city. The law is weak and spineless to do anything about it and more often than not, protect the guilty whilst punishing the victim, and the scum know this. I'm just surprised we don't hear more stories of people taking the law into their own hands due to the frustration of being let down by those that should be protecting us all.

I am sure there are many thousands of individuals who think the same as you Trevor but it is unwise to broadcast it on the net.

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
10 Nov 2010 - 10:25 AM


Quote: Unfortunately, this country is just festering with scum in every corner of every city.

Oh dear what a terrible outlook on life. I suggest you get out a bit more and stop reading the Daily Mail Grin

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2010 - 12:23 PM


Quote: Unfortunately, this country is just festering with scum in every corner of every city.

Otherwise known as tabloid journalists.

Bad news sells papers. You will never find a paper concentrating on all the 'yoofs' who do noble things every day, nor will they print the stories of all the patients whose lives have been positively impacted or even saved by the NHS. Their job is to frighten the public into believing they are in danger of their lives everywhere they turn and their only hope of finding out where the next danger lies is in continuing to buy the paper.

The papers also know that the kind of individual they love reporting on also love the notoriety it gives them, so the whole thing become a self fulfilling prophesy.

As cambirder says, you should get out there and look for the good as well as the bad.

Ian

collywobles
10 Nov 2010 - 4:15 PM


Quote: Oh dear what a terrible outlook on life. I suggest you get out a bit more and stop reading the Daily Mail Grin

You are right cambirder - some peole have a rather negative outlook on life, Its a case for some that ther glass is half empty whereas yours and mine are clearly half full.

Colin

BigRick
BigRick  82085 forum posts United Kingdom3 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2010 - 6:53 PM


Quote: It's not a camera that you should be shooting them with...

Unfortunately, this country is just festering with scum in every corner of every city. The law is weak and spineless to do anything about it and more often than not, protect the guilty whilst punishing the victim, and the scum know this. I'm just surprised we don't hear more stories of people taking the law into their own hands due to the frustration of being let down by those that should be protecting us all.

nothing to do with glass half full or empty.... this is how it is, and yes, they do know it. Sad

The only real way to deal with annoying neighbours is to 1 - Move Sad 2 - Sort them out. Wink

Most of the time, as said above they want the reaction to their action, and if you give them no reaction, there are two ways it will go.... 1 - They stop the abuse as they get bored....Smile 2 - They get progressivly worse until they get a reaction. Sad

People that do this kind of thing are just bullies, and bullies need teaching a hard lesson (something which in days gone by the parents and local bobby would have done, the bobby would have the child by the ear and take them home, and the parents would actualy have done something about it when they got there, instead of just saying oh well, i think he has ADHD, he cant help it).

I have no time for people like this, but i leave them alone until they affect me or my family.... then its a different story. Wink

BigRick
BigRick  82085 forum posts United Kingdom3 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2010 - 6:56 PM


Quote: It's not a camera that you should be shooting them with...

Unfortunately, this country is just festering with scum in every corner of every city. The law is weak and spineless to do anything about it and more often than not, protect the guilty whilst punishing the victim, and the scum know this. I'm just surprised we don't hear more stories of people taking the law into their own hands due to the frustration of being let down by those that should be protecting us all.

I am sure there are many thousands of individuals who think the same as you Trevor but it is unwise to broadcast it on the net.

the trouble is, if more people actually stood up for whats right in this country then it wouldnt be in the mess it is in.... more people need to post things like this on the net, and maybe things might start to change....

thats the thing with 'delicate' issues.... no one wants to be the first to say it, or do it.... but once the ball starts rolling it can take of in a big way.

I know it had no lasting impact, but as an example of planting an idea, the fuel protests some years ago.... that started small and got so big that virtual panic erupted.

TrevW
TrevW  4117 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Nov 2010 - 7:56 PM


Quote: Unfortunately, this country is just festering with scum in every corner of every city.

Oh dear what a terrible outlook on life. I suggest you get out a bit more and stop reading the Daily Mail Grin

I don't have a terrible outlook in life, I'm stating a fact; nor do I read any news papers - especially the daily fasicst. I do watch the bbc news every morning and hope that they are telling the truth. I walk with my eyes open and see things for myself. Only recently rows of cars down my brothers road had all their wing mirrors broken off by some mindless twats! Cars around from me had their wind screens smashed over night, the list goes on month in month out. And it's not just where I live. It's everywhere. Perhaps you haven't yet noticed similar events where you live like others and the OP have? Perhaps you live in a Rose flowered village where the only exciting news is the local dog having a crap on the village green? Or perhaps walk with blinkers on and refuse to accept what is going all around us. And thats the problem. People have their heads buried in the sand and refuse to accept that we have a problem within our society and would rather walk away when seeing someone in need of your help. And it's thanks to the looney left party where disipline has now broken down in the schools because you cannot touch kids anymore. They cannot even put on suncream on youngters! Looney! Kids have no respect for teachers or anyone and back chat as if they're adults themselves. A very small minority of them will then go on in life to give hell to others!

The trouble with us British types is that, we put up with a lot of wrong things and we do nothing about it. We say things like, "it is unwise to broadcast it on the net" (Why? Because of fear?). We just live with it and accept it and hope it doesn't affect us personally and goes away for someone else to deal with - unlike the French. If they don't like it, they will protest, strike and do something about it. Looking at your icon Cam, I thought that kind of thing would be right up your street Wink

thewilliam
10 Nov 2010 - 8:37 PM

In our quiet corner of Somerset, I always thought that a "crime-wave" consisted of two people cycling without lights. Then a few days ago, we were visited by a couple of lads who'd absconded from a young offenders' institution over the border in Devon. In just a few hours, they clocked up more crime than we'd suffered in the past 10 years. Several burglaries, numerous other thefts and they stole a car for their getaway.

They were soon caught and to our amazement, they didn't get bail!

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