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Assistants told to leave the shoot because they are men

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Wellspring
16 Jun 2011 - 12:18 AM

A female photographer tells her male assistants to leave the shoot because they are men and the fashion models are going to be showing skin. They have been working fine all together up to this point for hours. All the female assistants, MUA, Hair Stylists and Art Director were allowed to stay because they were women.

Is this appropriate?

I felt insulted when this happened to me. I was well known to the photographer, had worked with her before, she had modeled for me previously and was very familiar with my art nude work which is considered tasteful, elegant and beautiful.

What do you think?

John

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16 Jun 2011 - 12:18 AM

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ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jun 2011 - 12:50 AM

one word sexist.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139433 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jun 2011 - 12:54 AM

Bizarrre.

Supposing some of the men who were asked to leave were gay and some of the women who stayed were lesbians?

Sexist and making assumptions about sexual orientation!

indemnity
indemnity  6329 forum posts
16 Jun 2011 - 3:06 AM

All the men just act gay, issue never arises. Wink

cats_123
cats_123 e2 Member 104023 forum postscats_123 vcard Northern Ireland25 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jun 2011 - 6:49 AM

It's Discrimination

She needs someone to explain her responsibilities to her....Sad

peted01
peted01  571 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Jun 2011 - 7:31 AM

dear oh dear whats it all coming to !!!!

I couldnt believe it myself I was watching 24 hours in A&E last night and one bloke wanted to fight and puch out the doctor because he saw some of her chest when he was examining her.

jeez I would tell them to shove it and find another assistant (or doctor).

whipspeed
whipspeed e2 Member 104040 forum postswhipspeed vcard United Kingdom22 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jun 2011 - 8:24 AM

Ok, probably sexist, but maybe some of the models didn't feel comfortable with men in there and shooting whilst changing or maybe felt more comfortable with a woman shooting them. It does happen, everyone is different. Just move on to the next shoot.

I did a shoot with man (friend of mine) a couple of years ago for a calendar & he asked everyone left the studio for apart from me & his partner when we took the shots. Great body, but just a bit shy.

Wellspring
16 Jun 2011 - 8:35 AM


Quote: Ok, probably sexist, but maybe some of the models didn't feel comfortable with men in there and shooting whilst changing or maybe felt more comfortable with a woman shooting them. It does happen, everyone is different. Just move on to the next shoot.

*** that is what I did, however, if the model only worked with female photographers then i would go along with that - i very much doubt that is the case though otherwise I am sure it would have been mentioned before. This was a large shoot with three models. Not a group of pervy men learing at a bit of boob. It was an editorial shoot to be published.

I did a shoot with man (friend of mine) a couple of years ago for a calendar & he asked everyone left the studio for apart from me & his partner when we took the shots. Great body, but just a bit shy.

*** I think I would have been ok with being told, the models are a little nervous so could all unessential staff leave.

Thanks for your comment

User_Removed
16 Jun 2011 - 8:52 AM

It's up to the model(s). If they were uncomfortable with men around and the photographer thought she'd get better shots without guys in the room what's the problem?

I'm sure they weren't lying about it. Do you wish you could have quoted some rule that meant they were forced to let you stay?

Sex discrimination legislation has little or nothing to do with it. Small organisations are allowed to discriminate. All organisations can discriminate when employing the likes of changing-room assistants.

mikehit
mikehit  56454 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jun 2011 - 8:54 AM

I may generalising here, but if the 'fashion model' is nervous about 'showing skin', should she be in the business? I guess she could be inexperienced and still a bit nervous but it seems strange.

User_Removed
16 Jun 2011 - 9:04 AM

I think I was a bit unfair in my first comment and I want to put that right.

It's a conflict of interests. Models who are only really comfortable doing nudity with no guys around. John, the OP, who feels insulted as he's a professional and feels chastised like a naughty schoolboy. The photographer whose prime goal is to get the best images.

I can see all sides and I sympathise with you John.

The person in charge of the shoot did a bad job and things should have been explained more diplomatically.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 16 Jun 2011 - 9:06 AM
whipspeed
whipspeed e2 Member 104040 forum postswhipspeed vcard United Kingdom22 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jun 2011 - 9:12 AM

That about sums it up.

thewilliam
16 Jun 2011 - 9:40 AM

Mikehit has it right! I've never yet met a fashion model that suffers from modesty. they've all accepted that when getting ready for a show, there will be designers, stylists, MUAs etc all milling around and concentrating on their allotted tasks, not even noticing that models might be partly dressed or even naked.

Why did the photographer hire male assistants in the first place when she knew gender would be an issue?

If my boss had ordered me from the set on that pretext, I'd be straight to the Industrial Tribunal with claims for constructive dismissal and discrimination!.

Wellspring
16 Jun 2011 - 9:46 AM


Quote: John, the OP, who feels insulted as he's a professional and feels chastised like a naughty schoolboy.

I think this is exactly how I felt at the time.

I understand and practise making models comfortable - it was a shock to be told I was the problem. I think I really hated being ejected from the group as not being 'acceptable'.

It was wrong of me to think of it as personal as the model did not know me, it was not about me, however years of being the last one to be picked for the football team does not always help reactions to be excluded and not being wanted.

Thanks for all your comments and contributions

John

Wellspring
16 Jun 2011 - 9:51 AM


Quote: If my boss had ordered me from the set on that pretext, I'd be straight to the Industrial Tribunal with claims for constructive dismissal and discrimination!.

I looked up the discrimination legislation and it does permit discrimination in cases of nudity, as in changing room assistants etc.

I am sure it was as much a surprise to the photographer as it was to us otherwise I am sure that she would have mentioned it beforehand instead of all of a sudden. I don't even know if the model knew that one of the dresses would reveal so much, it has all the hallmarks of the photographer having to make quick decisions.

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