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Boxing Event Contract Advice

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ContempoPhoto
12 Nov 2012 - 9:47 AM

Hi Folks,

Can I ask for your collective advice / wisdom?! I work as a wedding photographer (primarily) but a friend of mine asked me to come along to one of his boxing events as he has been let down on so many other occasions. He has been so impressed with the images that I have managed to get (as was I!) that he wants to firm up an agreement for me to photograph all of his events in the future.

Now, here I am struggling!

I need a little advice on the structure of the contract and also the pricing of this as I although I am comfortable with my wedding contract, event photography is a new venture for me. I had a few thoughts on the potential structure:

Basic event photography contract (I've downloaded a few from t'internet)

1. Charge for the coverage and agree a contract for the licensing of the images such as here: http://media.gn.apc.org/forms/cccform.pdf
2. Charge a nominal fee for attending and then sell the images online
3. combination of both!

The client has also stated that he would like a percentage of any revenue made from the sale of images but I'm not very comfortable with this.

I'm assuming that I will need model release from all the fighters (and the referee?) also

Any guidance you guys can give is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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12 Nov 2012 - 9:47 AM

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keithh
keithh  1022762 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2012 - 12:37 PM


Quote: 1. Charge for the coverage and agree a contract for the licensing of the images such as here:

I suspect that won't work and it's not what he has in mind - even remotely.


Quote: 2. Charge a nominal fee for attending and then sell the images online

Same again although the selling images online would be OK.


Quote: 3. combination of both!

Nope.


Quote: The client has also stated that he would like a percentage of any revenue made from the sale of images but I'm not very comfortable with this.

Well he is organising the event and if he's granting you exclusive photographic access, then clawing back some commission would not be unusual.


Quote: I'm assuming that I will need model release from all the fighters (and the referee?) also

that would depend on what you see as a final useage for the images other than for sale to those involved.

sausage
sausage  9228 forum posts United Kingdom
12 Nov 2012 - 3:19 PM

I personally would charge a fee in case you don't sell many images. On an event like that you probably won't sell many other than to the boxers and even then they're not going to want to pay much. The winning one may be different!

I have done videos for these type of events and as far as I know the client was the only one to have the video.

Peter

ContempoPhoto
12 Nov 2012 - 8:14 PM

Thanks Guys,

I think I need to expand on the event a little bit which could alter your responses - sorry I was not clear enough in the first post.

The event is the culmination of 6 months of training for normal guys - The trainer's (and event organiser) tagline is 'beginner to boxer' and the graduates of the training period then partake in a boxing event. Essentially he takes a group of lads, trains them up for 6 months and then pairs them up for a full evening of boxing (with 3 course meal and charity auction) for all of the audience (who will be paying 40 per ticket - last time there were over 200 people there!)
The last event compromised of 15 bouts of 3, 3 minute rounds with all protective gear.

Here is a gallery of some of the shots I took (be kind - first foray into this thing!) - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151193493724647.486710.23393489646&a...

This is why I am a little uncomfortable with the profit sharing, partly as he charges for the 6/12 training and then for the tickets to the event. He is commissioning the photography, rather than allowing exclusive access.

Does that help at all. Any further advance appreciated.

KevSB
KevSB  101404 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2012 - 8:54 PM

Good luck on this but has been pointed out, I suspect your only buyers will be the fighters themselves and that would be debatable , 15 bouts = 30 photos so I would suggest you do some research on this before committing.
I have a friend who does top draw photography using strobe and does this for free..
200 spectators sounds good but put yourself in there shoes, would you buy a photograph of a boxer, and with modern compacts being good now most will have family members taking pictures from the audience.
As I said we could be wrong so again I would suggest you do research and ask around you potential audience. Good luck and hope your aspirations come about. Excellent set of images btw

Last Modified By KevSB at 12 Nov 2012 - 8:57 PM
ContempoPhoto
12 Nov 2012 - 9:49 PM

Thanks KevSB, appreciate the response and the feedback on the images.

I think that the only way that I am going to get anything from this (other than a decent set of images) is to charge a commission fee and licence the images to him with online sales to the boxers themselves. Maybe a long shot but I have no intention in giving up a Friday night for free! I have no real intention in making this into an other arm of the business but it is a bit of a challenge and something just a little different from the romance and glamour of weddings!

I'm meeting with him this weekend to discuss the options so I'll see what he says.

Thanks for the input and suggestions.
KevSB - if you have a link to your friends work, I'd like to see what he captures for some inspiration.

Cheers

KevSB
KevSB  101404 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2012 - 9:57 PM

I don't hunk he's updated his website yet with new boxing pictures, he also does it in more controlled situations, eg gym and behind the scenes ,I've not seen him do live match pictures and yours are as good as I've seen tbh so it was slightly unfair for me to compare.

keithh
keithh  1022762 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2012 - 7:29 AM


Quote: He is commissioning the photography, rather than allowing exclusive access.

So there will be other photographers with ringside access?

ContempoPhoto
14 Nov 2012 - 10:17 PM


Quote: So there will be other photographers with ringside access?

Other than guests with their cameras, no other pros booked(as far as I'm aware).

danh
danh  461 forum posts United Kingdom36 Constructive Critique Points
15 Nov 2012 - 12:22 PM

From the limited boxing coverage I've done, any licence to shoot the event is usually purchased from the organiser in advance. In that way (in theory), both the photographer and the organiser make money. The price of the licence depends whether such a purchase is worthwhile (anticipated sales offset). If you're being paid to shoot the event by the organiser, he/she will expect a percentage of your profits so you need to think carefully about pricing. Also, if you licence the images via the organiser, they may inadvertently allow your images to be 'stolen' from any online gallery, thereby denying the possibility of any sales at all. Many people will be hapy to steal a watermarked image rather than pay for a print. Most will only want to buy a digital version, if they're under about 25 yrs of age.

With a group of 'lads' you might have CRB issues, especially if the referee is a stickler for process.

My only tip for the event is lens cleaner, wet-wipes and a couple of towels - ringside can be pretty damp, with all manner of fluids flying around. Sad

mikeweeks
mikeweeks  9952 forum posts England3 Constructive Critique Points
20 Nov 2012 - 9:34 AM

Sorry but none of the above are the way that normal event photographers do it. Your work will be stolen and used on Facebook if posted on the web. Your only real opportunity is to sell them (the fighters) discs of images of their bout. Audience are unlikely to buy images at normal fights but you may get something different here such as parents etc. due to the way he is running it. Many fighting events the organiser will expect a share from your takings.

CRB issues, nonsense, totally not relevant.

I know far more event photographers that have covered such events and will not do again that those that keep covering these.

779HOB
779HOB  2999 forum posts United Kingdom
20 Nov 2012 - 8:59 PM

I'd charge a flat fee and let the organiser have the images to sell - he won't sell many and you will have the fee in your pocket.

mikeweeks
mikeweeks  9952 forum posts England3 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2012 - 5:05 PM


Quote: I'd charge a flat fee and let the organiser have the images to sell - he won't sell many and you will have the fee in your pocket.

Does not work, the organisers are not generally that stupid at these events

Mike

779HOB
779HOB  2999 forum posts United Kingdom
21 Nov 2012 - 5:13 PM


Quote: Does not work, the organisers are not generally that stupid at these events

Then I can't really see why anyone would do it.

mikeweeks
mikeweeks  9952 forum posts England3 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2012 - 10:33 PM

Thats why I am a professional event photographer and have to know how if it is possible to make money from different events, I have explained how and of all the guys I know doing these that is the way they work.

Mike

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