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I thought the only reason for banning something was because it was a threat to the public. When was the last time anyone was mugged by a muslim wearing a burqa ? What's more depressing is the rabid response from the British public ("if they want to live here they should be prepared to live like us" etc) many of whom want to see it banned here. I naively believed that we'd distanced ourselves from such xenophobic hysteria but it seems that the spirit of Alf Garnett is still with us.
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I have mixed feelings about this. I am all for allowing people to follow their own traditions and keep their cultures alive, wherever they are living. However if they are living in another country there should be some attempt by them to integrate and adapt to the culture of the country in which they are living.
If the wearing of such clothing interferes with communications then there should be some acceptance by the wearers that it would be polite (even advisable) to remove it during times when clear communications are necessary. Eye to eye contact and facial expressions are very important and not being able to see the face or eyes causes anxiety, lack of trust and leads to difficulty in dealing with each other.
So, in essence, whilst I do not strictly agree with a total ban, I think there should be some restrictions on their being worn.
I have to totally agree with Spaceman on this one. Live and let live. Im amazed by peoples reactions, and the hysteria too .. we spent long enough with the IRA bombing us ... one attack by muslims and we are up in arms .....
Ian .... of course there should be an attempt to integrate ... however do you think people should be forced to change their style of dress??? The governments doing a pretty good job of setting the scene for a police state is it not?
Total public ban = nuts
Enforcing the removal for passports/driving licence etc. = common sense
Dan don't get steamed up. If you read my response I was referring to a specific issue, for which a solution needs to be found. I am not in favour of an all out ban, but there are times when our culture needs sight of facial expressions and eyes. Much of our understanding of each other comes from the ability to read facial expressions and not being able to see them will stir up distrust in the people who love to find reasons to distrust.
I don't believe that some Muslims want to integrate. They deliberately seperate themselves, and whilst going on about their own religious freedom they are determined to crush ours! Hence, the airline stewardess not allowed to wear her crucifix, the disappearance of scenes of the Nativity on Christmas because THEY might find it offensive, discussions about changing the name of Christmas, and there are umpteen more examples of such things. If religious tolerance is to be shown, it must be shown to all religions equally.
You can guarantee if you went to live in a Muslim country and started demanding your religious freedom, you would be shown no tolerance at all.
I wasn't getting stirred up ... but i do have issues with racist comments, and although I know the intention wasn't there ... the comment was bordering on it.
As for not wanting to integrate ... well half the UK don't want to integrate .. including me.
The argument about going to live in a muslim country is totally invalid. I dont base my decisions and opinions on what oher people do.
I can see this thread is going get heated, never discuss religion and politics.
Can people please make sure the discussion stays reasonable, we don't want to end up having to lock it.
I'm completely with Ian on this one. I think that that there are a lot of instances where they should be dissallowed.
The one in the news (about a teacher) is a prime example. There are many more; for example if I rode my motorbike to the bank I'd be expected to remove my helmet when going in so as not to hide my identity. There are many more.
I think the UK is too politically correct to be honest. We need more common sense.
I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot if we continued our British traditions if living in some Muslim Country.
Oh... by the way; Alf Garnett... absolutely great comedy. Pity we aren't allowed to show stuff like that these days. Otherwise the politically correct army would have a full out war.
Edit: I type too slow
Quote: but i do have issues with racist comments, and although I know the intention wasn't there ... the comment was bordering on it.
Nope, far from it Dan. Merely making an observation based upon the facts.
Quote: I don't believe that some Muslims want to integrate. They deliberately seperate themselves, and whilst going on about their own religious freedom they are determined to crush ours! Hence, the airline stewardess not allowed to wear her crucifix, the disappearance of scenes of the Nativity on Christmas because THEY might find it offensive, discussions about changing the name of Christmas, and there are umpteen more examples of such things.
In many cases, when Muslim community leaders are asked about some of these things, they say that they don't want things to be changed.
Yeah. Of course.
I think I'll step out of this debate now as thankfully I consider myself tolerant enough not to think this way.
Just to expand a little Dan.
When we go to Turkey, which although secular is a mainly Muslim country we make a conscious effort to dress accordingly and to act accordingly. Robbie covers her hair if we go into a mosque, we take our shoes off when entering peoples homes, we don't wander off the beach and into town still in our beach gear.
We do this out of courtesy for their culture, religion and traditions. We also do it because we know some Turkish people would be offended if we didn't. It is not being racist to ask that people living in the UK are respectful of our traditions.
As i say. Im British, not Turkish and make my decisions on what I beleive, based on an open society, which is tolerant to all faiths, and people, not on what other countries do.
However I respect your right to freedom of speech, even though I do not agree with what you say.
Turkey is an open country, it lives life according to a secular constitution and people of every faith are free to practice their religion, or not as the case may be.
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