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Cameras are stupid ?

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    pulsar69
    1 Feb 2012 - 5:42 PM
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    Quote from a local professional photographer ...

    "but not I'm NOT "into" cameras - to me they are just very complex, but stupid, light capturing boxes"

    discuss ....

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    1 Feb 2012 - 5:42 PM

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    mikehit
    mikehit (e2 Member)
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    1 Feb 2012 - 5:45 PM
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    Agreed.

    Next question.... Smile

    pulsar69
    1 Feb 2012 - 5:46 PM
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    Would wonder how many photographers are actually 'Not Into' their cameras, and if you can really ever understand something well that your not really into ?? and I find the camera to be a fantastically complex and clever peice of kit , the person behind it sometimes a little stupid !

    mikehit
    mikehit (e2 Member)
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    1 Feb 2012 - 6:09 PM
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    I am not 'into' cars but I have one and want the best one for my purposes so when I want a new one I do my research in magazines etc. For the next 6 years I don't care.


    I would read 'being into' equipment as reading about them, buying magazines about gear rather than about photography and actively following the market as a point of interest rather than necessity. I am sure there are many professionals who hear things on the grapevine and give it serious thought when they realise it may offer something that they could use. So in that repsect I can understand what the first part of the quote was about.

    If you look back at film cameras, a body was literally a light-tight box to hold a film securely and new cameras offered genuine functional improvements and if they tried to release new film bodies with the rapidity we see with digital they would have gone bankrupt. But digital has given the populace to change bodies simply because they can and owning a new body is as much of the hobby as taking pictures. The DSLRs are now so close in performance it is almost a mature market in the same way film cameras are so people will have less reason to change models.

    Are they 'stupid'? I take that as being 'dumb' meaning they are 'reactive' rather than active. They respond to light well so meter superbly and focus is amazing compared to 20 years ago, but at the end of the day it is the photographer who ways "I want f8 at 1/500 not f5.6 at 1/1000". The camera provides options and the photographer decides.


    Will this lead to another 'photographer vs camera discussion"....?


    I have seen countless posts where an amateur asks things like: "should I get the Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS or Tamron 17-50 without IS". To which all the amaterus reply "get the Canon. Better IQ and it has IS. it is a better lens". To which a seasoned pro responds "I have to justify the return on my purchase. I find the 17-50 is virtually as good and the Canon offers no practial advantage for sales"

    miptog
    6
    3448 forum posts United Kingdom60 Constructive Critique Points
    1 Feb 2012 - 6:15 PM
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    I suspect many pros look at their equipment in a very functional way, as its just a tool to do the job in hand.

    The very reason we have IT departments, use a computer but have no idea how it works or how to fix if it goes wrong. Grin

    pulsar69
    1 Feb 2012 - 6:23 PM
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    Quote: The very reason we have IT departments, use a computer but have no idea how it works or how to fix if it goes wrong. Grin

    Not a good analogy - Youre not a computer technician or are you Wink , we are talking about a photographer who is not into cameras....

    Mike Otley
    Mike Otley (e2 Member)
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    17325 forum postsMike Otley vcard Norway8 Constructive Critique Points
    1 Feb 2012 - 6:23 PM
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    Quote: "but not I'm NOT "into" cameras - to me they are just very complex, but stupid, light capturing boxes"

    On the basis that the gentleman IS a full-time pro, then I can accept this persons observation/opinion.

    Today's cameras ARE complex. Period.

    I will qualify that by bringing a couple of my favourite photographers in as examples...

    Ansel Adams and Henri Cartier-Bresson.

    Their place in the History of photography is well documented - and their exemplary work was produced without resorting to electronics. They understood their craft i.e the equipment, it's limitations and how to get the best out of what they had.

    All that said, a modern digital camera - with all it's 'gadgetry' - can (demonstrably) deliver stunning images equal to that of my two favourites BUT...

    I will have a small wager that these modern-derived images were captured by equally knowledgeable photographers using MANUAL mode only.

    In other words, their exemplary work is delivered via their photographic knowledge and ability - and NOT the equipments 'features'.

    pulsar69
    1 Feb 2012 - 6:29 PM
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    Quote: I suspect many pros look at their equipment in a very functional way, as its just a tool to do the job in hand.

    I look at my equiment in a sort of schizophrenic fashion - I love it and it makes me a good living, but i cant wait to get something even better and replace it , I personally find the love of cameras, technology and photography all goes together and helps in many respects.

    Mike, you say your not into cars but do research when you buy one , that research would lead you down the path of many manufacturers and I am sure you will have found yourself in conversation with others about makes and models they own over the years, aswell as the time spent researching when something goes wrong rather than trusting a mechanic ??

    I have a notion .... those that say they arent into cameras have a fairly old or outdated kit they cannot justify or afford to replace and defend their position by 'not being into cameras' , whereas those that are into cameras spend a lot of time telling others what they are going to buy next. Then somewhere in the middle is everyone else !! ( waits to be shot down )

    Last Modified By pulsar69 at 1 Feb 2012 - 7:17 PM
    Carabosse
    Carabosse (e2 Member)
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    1 Feb 2012 - 6:37 PM
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    I look at my equipment lovingly! Wink

    Sooty_1
    1 Feb 2012 - 7:53 PM
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    I sometimes find myself looking at other photographers' equipment lovingly..........Wink

    discreetphoton
    discreetphoton (Site Moderator)
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    1 Feb 2012 - 7:54 PM
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    I look through mine lovingly. I find that helps to get better photos.

    Mike, that's an excellent response Smile

    Last Modified By discreetphoton at 1 Feb 2012 - 7:55 PM
    Big Bri
    11
    14836 forum posts England
    1 Feb 2012 - 8:22 PM
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    Quote: Not a good analogy - Youre not a computer technician or are you , we are talking about a photographer who is not into cameras....

    It's a perfect analogy. Cameras are made to do a job. They are a tool. Computers are the same. I know plenty of people who use computers to do a specific job, but aren't "into" computers and have no idea how they work.

    rabdhu
    1 Feb 2012 - 8:40 PM
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    Things that have to be used fast under pressure and with shall we say style are best if tactile, ergonomic and their workings can be mastered by humans using practice. A parallel exists in clay pigeon shooting, gun fit and coordination and concentration are all aided by a shotgun that is crafted well, nicely balanced, with ideal trigger pulls. Coach Mike Yardley says 'but do not bind yourself by technical thrombosis' meaning never mind the sight rib, the chokes, the fore-end catch, etc but concentrate on the job in hand.
    I feel the same about cameras; given a type that suits you (for me twin lens reflex or rangefinder) a clear view finder and of course the abilities for the type of pictures you want then it helps if the machine is a reliable, highly tactile jewel. Also as a hobbyist, satisfying. A pro would demand knock in nails toughness, waterproofing, whatever as well, that's why Nikon exist as they are (top end film and digital)

    Having a simple manual camera that you know instinctively by long practise adds to the experience (but makes a long learning curve true!). I have a long way to go but the enthusiasm imbued in me by using a Leica does not blind me to the fact that the similar (Cosina) Voigtlaender could do as well for a quarter the price, and indeed feels very good in it's own right. So does the Zeiss equivalent for somewhat less. And I'd happily use a 40 year old Rollie twin lens too, when I can pinch it off my friend. I constantly guard against tech thrombo; I do set out with just one modest 50mm collapsible lens, the discipline does my soul good (though not necessarily the pictures!)

    This is all a world away from pro's - they simply need the best there is for a job and rugged, being pro's we assume they adapt to the foibles of the kit, as they are day-long experienced. I was appalled watching a film shoot to see $50000 Zeiss optics (for 70mm fim cams so they were huge) being chucked into a box, but then the stuff is made to stand it and these guys are working fast, using tools.

    lobsterboy
    lobsterboy (Site Moderator)
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    12463 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
    1 Feb 2012 - 9:08 PM
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    The only time I get interested in kit, is when it stops me doing what I want.
    Then I feel the need to buy something else..

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