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Can I be asked to delete photos from my camera?

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waylandtb
waylandtb  325 forum posts United Kingdom
14 Jan 2013 - 10:00 AM

I was involved in a discussion over the weekend with some people who work at a local museum, they told me that they frequently ask people to delete images taken in "no photography" areas (they admit that the signs for these area are very poor) and sometimes even confiscate cameras to "help people delete their images".
I said I was pretty sure what they were doing was illegal under data protection but was told that "its fairly standard practice"

I've had a look on the various website to see if I can clarify this but they only thing I can find is about court orders and anti terrorism law.

Can anyone clarify this please?

(PS not just with its private property they can do what they like, that really isn't the case any more)

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lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014131 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 10:05 AM


Quote: they told me that they frequently ask people to delete images taken in "no photography" areas

Well they can ask, but I don't believe you have to comply


Quote: sometimes even confiscate cameras to "help people delete their images".

I don't think they would have any power to do that - I would have thought that if they did that against your will it would constitute assault. They can insist you leave though.

Unless my understanding of the law is complete tosh...

mikehit
mikehit  56348 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 10:13 AM

They can ask, but you do not have to comply. Nor are they allowed to confiscate your camera and then delete the images against your wishes.
There was a link recently which I cannot find that explained the 'no photography' posters are not an order as such that, if you do take pictures, gives them rights to delete the images - the musem staff have to intervene to stop you taking pictures. As lobster says, if you do take pictures they have a right to ask you to leave and I am sure that the museum would hold the image rights to whatever it is you take pictures of so youwould not be allowed to sell them.

thewilliam
14 Jan 2013 - 10:42 AM

If a police officer orders you to delete images, you can point out that this constitutes destruction of evidence that might be material to a possible terrorism case. The officer could then arrest you and hold you for 28 days without charge, so you'd be wise to use the utmost diplomacy.

Taking pix in defiance of a prohibition notice in a museum or other venue makes the snapper "trespasser ab initio" and he/she can be ordered to leave the premises. We can refuse to delete or hand over the camera but must leave the premises when required. Any attempt to grab the camera constitutes a robbery and/or assault.

The late landscape photographer, Faye Godwin, was a campaigner for free access to the countryside and president of the Ramblers. She told a story of one landowner who demanded her film. When she refused, the landowner was unwise enough to point his shotgun at Faye only to be told that he was committing armed robbery for which the maximum penalty was life imprisonment. What Faye lacked in physical height, she more than made up in fierceness. The landowner then went on his way.

mikehit
mikehit  56348 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 11:06 AM


Quote: If a police officer orders you to delete images, you can point out that this constitutes destruction of evidence that might be material to a possible terrorism case. The officer could then arrest you and hold you for 28 days without charge, so you'd be wise to use the utmost diplomacy.



On what basis could he hold you for 28 days? Given that he was asking you to do something that is not within his power, surely that would be wrongful arrest. When taking photos, I recommend not mentioning terrorism.

MikeRC
MikeRC e2 Member 93497 forum postsMikeRC vcard United Kingdom
14 Jan 2013 - 11:09 AM


Quote: When taking photos, I recommend not mentioning terrorism.

....or bombs Smile

KenTaylor
KenTaylor e2 Member 92980 forum postsKenTaylor vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 11:22 AM

They are certainly not allowed to confiscate your camera, while requesting deletion is just that. Even if one should comply to their satisfaction that the images were deleted they can of course be rescued later if they were considered worthy.

The bottom line is using them as a means of financial gain that quite rightly they frown upon. There are many museums that make a charge should there be any photography intended.

It may well be "standard practice" that many just recording their visit will comply with. The standard practice as they put it illustrates how murky the waters are.

If being serious ask first offering a contribution.

franken
franken e2 Member 113108 forum postsfranken vcard Wales4 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 11:24 AM

The police force in the UK have no power to order any images to be deleted from a camera or any other recording device.

They need to go to the courts and obtain a court order to do so and need to justify the reason for such action.

Ken.

Here's a bit of useful info.

http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2012/04/14/photographers-rights-the-ultimate-g...

and not simply what the police can do and cant do list Wink

Last Modified By franken at 14 Jan 2013 - 11:34 AM
keithh
keithh e2 Member 1022922 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna33 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 11:28 AM

I see we quickly got a 'what the police can and can't do' thread Wink

arhb
arhb e2 Member 72232 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom68 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 11:31 AM


Quote: I see we quickly got a 'what the police can and can't do' thread Wink

Well Keith, it is a law related thread, and the police sometimes do 'law' stuff Wink

Graflex
Graflex  11488 forum posts United Kingdom
14 Jan 2013 - 1:56 PM

Last year I attended an event in London at a famous gallery...we had strict orders not to photograph in certain parts of the building because copyright material was hanging up around the place.

When the day approached that idea went out of the window,because the person we were to photograph was standing in the very room with walls covered in pictures.

Now,trying to stop people with mobile phones/compact cameras taking pictures because of rules is like plugging a crack in a sinking ship.

We just went ahead with taking our pictures-yes,we would have loved not to have the pictures hanging on the walls..but needs must.
The management just stood by and said nil.

No harm done.

cathal
cathal  9492 forum posts Ireland4 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 1:59 PM

Of course we did Keith, but if even the Police can't ask you delete an image, why could an employee or representative of a museum... or any other building, location, etc?

Cephus
Cephus  92127 forum posts England
14 Jan 2013 - 2:02 PM

Why not just delete the images, take the camera home and use "Recuva" to restore the images. SIMPLES SmileSmile

theorderingone
14 Jan 2013 - 2:04 PM

I always find the easiest way to diffuse one of these situations, whether they are in the wrong, or not is to comply.

Once the pictures have been deleted, put the card away somewhere safe, then retrieve the images using image retrieval software when you get home. That way you avoid a potentially agro situation, and still get your images.

mikehit
mikehit  56348 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
14 Jan 2013 - 3:23 PM

My concern is that staff are told to get the customer to delete images without telling them the whole story so they think in all good faith that they have the right to insist. I think the correct thing is to refuse: i they threten to throw me out then I may delete and recover while explaining at the time that they are wrong.

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