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Can we have some new categories ... Please...

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Diana
Diana e2 Member 72011 forum postsDiana vcard Netherlands19 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 11:54 AM


Quote: and now be able to concentrate on taking more photo's rather than worrying about where to upload them...

that is just soooo funny PMSL

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25 Aug 2009 - 11:54 AM

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SteveCharles
25 Aug 2009 - 11:55 AM

James, the reason the categories are important to me (and by important, I mean in their potential to make my use of the site more enjoyable, not important in a throw-myself-under-a-bus-if-I-don't-get-the-categories-I-want sort of way), is that they mean 2 things to me; 1, they allow me to look stuff I want to, and perhaps more importantly, not look at stuff I don't want to, and 2, it's a means of saying 'this is what type of work this is and the context in which I want it to be seen'. I know it the cool thing to say 'hey, relax, categories don't matter, don't pigeonhole yourself', but if I'm being honest the categories here frustrate me with my subject matter and I find myself increasingly drawn to the Flickr model of being able to home in on exactly what I want to see rather than wade through a gallery of a load of stuff I don't, which is why I'm in favour of more rather than less categories. Why does everything with a building have to be 'architecture', when there are 2 nude galleries depending on your preference for high or low-brow soft porn?

Tags can definitley help, but rely on the user putting the right and correctly-spelt tags in.

JamesBurns
25 Aug 2009 - 12:02 PM

But Steve,

Users on Flickr with similar interests search each other out, and then form common-interest groups. I'd doubt, once those groups are established, that they often search for new people outside of those groups - the new people will find them and join the existing groups.

As a frequent user of the site, you probably know (some of) the people who have similar interests to you - I can think of one other user immediately - and if you worked with the site, found them out... you could form offshoot microgroups, agree on common tag clouds and have exactly the same kind of functionality.

The only difference is between what I suggest, and what is currently being asked, is that the former requires the individuals to put some graft in to get the system established. It's probably just me being a grumpy tw*t today, but I can't help but feel that people are a little too reliant on being spoon fed these days.

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 12:16 PM


Quote: It just needs one more category......

"night photography/long exposure/light painting"



I agree with Diana on this one and think she has a fair and reasonable point. The categories are for all users including people searching for subjects for the first time.

This suggested category gets my vote as being user friendly to all users of the site - both those uploading and those seeking images to view.

Anything that make the site user friendly will benefit us all.

epz is a great community and would benefit even more from this extra category in my opinion.

Things change and evolve and that's not a bad thing. If a new category is created here on epz, whatever it is called to reflect this style of photography which is growing in levels of interest and creativity, we will all benefit from it.

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318430 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 12:24 PM


Quote: Tags can definitley help, but rely on the user putting the right and correctly-spelt tags in.

It's just the same with categories It currently takes about three man (women) hours a day to recategorize images that have been dropped in without any thought. As more categories are introduced all that happens is people will get lazier and put their photos in the quickest option.
Tags is the way to go. And, agreeing with James again (too much today which worries me), also forming tag groups. A great example of this was a couple of years ago. Paree, rather than asking for a 70s self portrait category, got a system going where everyone uploaded their old self portraits from the 70s and used a "uniform" tag. The people who've attended meets did the same until we developed the Members Meet option.

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 12:42 PM

[quote] It currently takes about three man (women) hours a day to recategorize images that have been dropped in without any thought. As more categories are introduced all that happens is people will get lazier and put their photos in the quickest option.
quote]

If people can't be bothered to place their own images in the correct category why bother to re-categorise them?
Just delete them.
Pandering to lazy people is just a waste of time

SteveCharles
25 Aug 2009 - 12:45 PM

So if you want to encourage the use of tags, you need to make it known. As I mentioned before in this thread, the main gallery page allows filtering by gallery category, but makes absolutlely no mention of tags. Perhaps the compulsory inclusion of, say, at least 3 tags on uploading, in the same way that you can't upload without selecting at least one gallery, would encourage awareness of the importance of tags.

JamesBurns
25 Aug 2009 - 12:47 PM


Quote: Pandering to lazy people is just a waste of time


Quote: Anything that make the site user friendly will benefit us all.

[irony]Genius.[/irony]
Besides, isn't the whole process of asking for extra categories because people can't be arsed to tag them correctly (and consistently) just fundamentally lazy at the end of the day?

JamesBurns
25 Aug 2009 - 12:48 PM


Quote: So if you want to encourage the use of tags, you need to make it known. As I mentioned before in this thread, the main gallery page allows filtering by gallery category, but makes absolutlely no mention of tags. Perhaps the compulsory inclusion of, say, at least 3 tags on uploading, in the same way that you can't upload without selecting at least one gallery, would encourage awareness of the importance of tags.

Works for me...

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 1:19 PM

Buying into Steve's idea - but why not take it a step further by removing completely the need to upload into any category (that really panders to the lazy but only the thoughtful will bother and thus will remove the three person hours per day input) but have compulsory tags (as Steve suggest two or three should do the trick and even allow nightime puffinscapes or maritime nicelightscape images to be correctly tagged!!!).

Way to Go?

Cheers

Robert

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 1:24 PM


Quote: QuoteTongueandering to lazy people is just a waste of timeQuote:Anything that make the site user friendly will benefit us all.[irony]Genius.[/irony]
Besides, isn't the whole process of asking for extra categories because people can't be arsed to tag them correctly (and consistently) just fundamentally lazy at the end of the day?

No James - don't forget tips for posting "Be polite, respectful and helpful"
Irony and sarcasm don't come across well in threads. Your grumpiness referred to in your earlier post should not follow through into your posts Smile

The system is lacking at the moment and could be improved.

If as a user I wanted to find light trails, painting with light etc it is not immediately apparent where to look.

Promoting the use of tags is a start - but in my opinion, to be more user friendly a new category as Diana suggested is a very good way forward.

It can't be hard to set up one new category surely? - less than 3 hours a day being wasted on the lazy ones Smile

Diversity of opinion is a good thing - it's OK to disagree without sarcasm being involved.

Last Modified By montechoro at 25 Aug 2009 - 1:42 PM
pennyspike
pennyspike  112068 forum posts United Kingdom29 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 2:14 PM

Following Pete's Links I found Firespinning, (warts & all) it spanned over a year on the first page. The first picture on light trails was 7th June 2007 others images spanned several years.

My experience of using tags to find pictures is pretty dire but in theory it could work well if everyone spells correctly, uses the comma to separate tags, and checks with a Thesaurus to cover all possibilities that people might use as descriptors.

I take it that if links are the way to go all categories will disappear.Wink

Most of the categories span different genres, night-time is no different. Astro-photography is not a specialism for me, as the picure was more of a pictorial attempt & I know very little astronomy. I agree it could be one of three chosen categories.

BTW Trad darkroom only had 6 pics uploaded in the last week and everyone would fit into another category but I don't hear anyone asking for it to go.

Last Modified By pennyspike at 25 Aug 2009 - 2:16 PM
ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 2:25 PM

Further to Pennyspikes notes Ithought it would be interesting to check out the popularity of current categories. The following can be deduced fairly simply and represent the number of days it takes each category to fill up 1600 uploads. Makes interesting reading - and I beleive it demonstrates the over-reliance on the catch all category Landscape/Travel and also General. Trad Darkroom on the other hand is taking almost fours years to reach this milestone (not that I am arguing for its demise).

Anyway I must get back to work now -

CATEGORY Days/1600 images

Landscape/Travel 8 days
Wildlife 9 days
General 10 days
Close Ups 14 days
Portraits 16 days
Flowers/Plants 22 days
B & W 29 days
Photo Journalism 30 days
Digital Manipulation 33 days
Architecture 40 days
Pets and Captive 43 days
Sports 48 days
Transport 52 days
Specialist/Close Up 71 days
Humour 79 days
Flash/Lighting 87 days
Nude Glamour 96 days
Digital Art 113 days
Fashion 144 days
Fine Art Nude 362 days
Wedding Social 375 days
Trad Dark Room 1431 days
Street Photography N/A

Cheers

Robert

answersonapostcard
answersonapostcard Site Moderator 1012518 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2009 - 2:35 PM

Categories also rely on people putting their images in the correct categories, sometimes it take me 2-3 hours a day just to go through the categories to correct them and even then I cant get them all, adding more and more categories is just going to increase the need to moderate this area more - anyone want to volunteer to become gallery moderator?

JamesBurns
25 Aug 2009 - 2:37 PM


Quote: No James - don't forget tips for posting "Be polite, respectful and helpful"
Irony and sarcasm don't come across well in threads.

To fully appreciate the beauty of the pearl, you need a few swine to cast them in front of - hence my continued membership... It's all part of the rich tapestry of life.


Quote: Diversity of opinion is a good thing - it's OK to disagree without sarcasm being involved.

You're indeed correct, but when you first post in support of additional categories (something which involves work for the team and increases overhead on the database) as being more user friendly, but then proceed to follow that with a suggestion of deleting people's photo's out-of-hand for being too lazy to correctly categorise them (not taking into account any mistakes they may have made), then it remains my unenviable task to point out the duplicity inherent in those statements.

For new users do you not think it would take considerably less effort, rather than adding unnecessary categories, to instead add a short paragraph explaining how to use the search function?

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