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Change from DSLR to M 4/3 rds


Paul Morgan e2
13 16.1k 6 England
16 Oct 2013 5:58PM

Quote:there's still almost the same overall weight saving when you factor in the lenses


One of the reasons I sold my 35-100 f2, a lovely lens, but a bit big if your trying to reduce system bulk Smile

It performs well on the EM1 so I`m told.

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keithh e2
11 23.4k 33 Wallis And Futuna
28 Mar 2014 12:30PM
I'm resurrecting this thread to ask if any of the mirrorless users are excited by the possibility of a Sony 645 format camera with the same sensor as the Hasselblad but ........................without a mirror.

I'd have thought the true mirrorless evangelist would be having someone else's kittens by now.
brian1208 e2
11 10.6k 12 United Kingdom
28 Mar 2014 1:26PM
I somehow doubt it will be in the price bracket that most of us mirrorless users will be able to contemplate Keith.

Now, I could perhaps have kittens at the thought of a mirrorless Sony 645 format for 1300 but otherwise, sorry - its a stuffed moggy Grin
Paul Morgan e2
13 16.1k 6 England
28 Mar 2014 1:50PM

Quote:I'm resurrecting this thread to ask if any of the mirrorless users are excited by the possibility of a Sony 645 format camera with the same sensor as the Hasselblad but ........................without a mirror.

I'd have thought the true mirrorless evangelist would be having someone else's kittens by now.



Nah it will still be too big Smile
mikesavage e2
12 260 2 England
28 Mar 2014 11:29PM
In the current issue of AP there's an article entitled Compact System Camera Sales Crash. It seems to be suggesting that, in particular, smaller sensor models may not have a future. I'm mystified by this, as you seem to hear so many togs say they're giving up their heavy DSLR kit for a lighter CSC one, and there seems to be no shortage of new models launching.
strawman e2
11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
29 Mar 2014 12:23AM
Is this the Article you are talking about . I think there is an element of people not appreciating what is on offer, and I wonder if 2012 reflected more the rush of people who might pick up such a camera and 2013 is the lull till something new comes along.

Another factor is the difference between the open market and what you see written on sites like this. the views of members of this site may not reflect the total market, and I wonder if the forum is drifting up in age over time and so you may be seeing a distorted picture.

For myself I find the compact CSC cameras a bit if a conundrum. There is no doubt a full SLR kit is bulky and heavy. I looked at the E-M10 thinking it could be just the solution for me. And to be honest it was the handling put me off. It was too small to hold comfortably and the controls were too fiddly. This surprised me as I wanted to like it and was thinking yes I want a smaller lighter system. I found myself wanting the bigger camera, to my surprise. so would I think of it as a replacement for my compact, well not really as it was not small enough and too highly priced for that. and the EVF, I still was not happy with it.

the above is rather sad, but as I was there ready to buy I found myself going, no not really. Are other people doing the same as me? I do not know. It could be a factor.

Another factor is to understand where enthusiast cameras are in the total sales volume. The low end of cameras sales are being lost to phones. Is part of the sales loss people just sticking to phones and avoiding cameras at all?
29 Mar 2014 7:55AM

Quote:...
Another factor is to understand where enthusiast cameras are in the total sales volume. The low end of cameras sales are being lost to phones. Is part of the sales loss people just sticking to phones and avoiding cameras at all?



That might be a factor, but there are other ones. Today I saw EOS1100D DSLR with 18-55 IS lens brand new at around 200 pounds. Also, compact camera market is definitely over-saturated with every brand bringing to it one or two new models every year.

Add to it economy troubles all over the world and it gets easy to understand why many people choose to be happy with their smartphones or to invest into something with resale value.

How large is CSC share in this process I am afraid cannot be figured out with any sort of mathematical precision. What I observe in our hemisphere, very few CSC models (namely OM-D family) are nearly as popular as (now) unbelievably cheap DSLRs.
29 Mar 2014 8:39AM

Quote:And to be honest it was the handling put me off. It was too small to hold comfortably and the controls were too fiddly. This surprised me as I wanted to like it and was thinking yes I want a smaller lighter system. I found myself wanting the bigger camera, to my surprise. so would I think of it as a replacement for my compact, well not really as it was not small enough and too highly priced for that. and the EVF, I still was not happy with it.



When you try a new camera for a short time all you notice are the differences between it and your usual camera. The real test is whether, after having used the new camera for a reasonable period of time, you still prefer your old camera. You might be surprised at how big and clunky it feels by comparison.

I'm not that surprised that DSLRs are still outselling CSCs (assuming the figures are correct, which is probably a big assumption) - it takes time for new systems to take off. There are obviously vastly more people who have DSLR systems and they will be buying new DSLRs. The DSLR manufacturers have also hit back by lowering the prices of their entry models so that they're often cheaper than CSCs. And a lot of people who are buying new system cameras tend to look for a "DSLR" as a matter of course. Look at how many threads there are on this site asking which DSLR they should buy - and any suggestions that they should maybe look at a CSC are usually dismissed.

They're just not aware of the benefits that mirrorless delivers. Sony worked out several years ago that the flappy mirror was a liability.
29 Mar 2014 8:44AM
One comment is which 4/3 companies will be around in 3 years?
With traditional DSLR sales falling a bit, 4/3 never achieving 20% market share and 4/3 sales in almost free fall decline in the UK (40% fall last year) maybe there are too many 4/3 players for the market size.
I expect Panasonic to disappear first from the market place, maybe followed by Fuji and Olympus later.
Canon (and Niko) are making more compact DSLR bodies to consider.
There seems to be a myth most (as distinct from manual focus era) Canon and Nikon lenses can be "easily used" with an adaptor on 4/3. Nikon G cannot be used, Nikon older AF do not AF, and probably Canon EOS do not work well.
It is probably "sell all your Canon kit" if you go 4/3 as you imply you do not want the bulk of 2 systems.
4/3 is still rapidly evolving with Fuji bringing out a body with an electronic viewfinder with speed and resolution to compete with conventional viewfinders, and the Nikon 1 V3 with 20 fps AF and 18 MP and new CX lenses about to arrive.
By next year I expect what 4/3 can deliver will be very different to now.
What the J3 (and a possible similar product from Canon) will do to the 4/3 players is speculation.
If I switch (for Nikon users Nikon have the J3 route) I would want to be as sure as I can be the brand I choose will be around 5 years from now.
uzi9mm e2
3 79 United Kingdom
29 Mar 2014 10:11AM
that's funny i've got two Panasonics and three Nikon...G....lenses and they work fine... since selling my Nikon bodies and going m4/3 bodies is the best thing I've done. I've now got light weight cameras with new lenses with extra reach. as for future cameras I will be looking at Nikon 1 cameras with the adapter to add to my miniature family of cameras.
Coast e2
6 1.5k 292 United Kingdom
29 Mar 2014 12:16PM

Quote:Is this the Article you are talking about. I think there is an element of people not appreciating what is on offer, and I wonder if 2012 reflected more the rush of people who might pick up such a camera and 2013 is the lull till something new comes along.

Another factor is the difference between the open market and what you see written on sites like this. the views of members of this site may not reflect the total market, and I wonder if the forum is drifting up in age over time and so you may be seeing a distorted picture.

For myself I find the compact CSC cameras a bit if a conundrum. There is no doubt a full SLR kit is bulky and heavy. I looked at the E-M10 thinking it could be just the solution for me. And to be honest it was the handling put me off. It was too small to hold comfortably and the controls were too fiddly. This surprised me as I wanted to like it and was thinking yes I want a smaller lighter system. I found myself wanting the bigger camera, to my surprise. so would I think of it as a replacement for my compact, well not really as it was not small enough and too highly priced for that. and the EVF, I still was not happy with it.

the above is rather sad, but as I was there ready to buy I found myself going, no not really. Are other people doing the same as me? I do not know. It could be a factor.

Another factor is to understand where enthusiast cameras are in the total sales volume. The low end of cameras sales are being lost to phones. Is part of the sales loss people just sticking to phones and avoiding cameras at all?



I have used medium format film cameras in the past and have been a Canon 35mm user for over 25 years moving from film to digital. Currently have the 5d mkIII with a full compliment of L lenses. I love my kit and use it regularly. There are times however when I would be out and about without the camera and wished I had more than my iphone for some pics.

I was never satisfied with the image quality off a compact camera even having bought a samsung WB500 that has a RAW facility. So I ended up with a Panasonic GF1 and a couple of primes; the 14mm and 20mm as well as the 45-200mm zoom. This was a fantastic improvement in quality. Very portable and you could fit it into a jacket pocket with the zoom lens in another pocket. My only issue being in bright light it could be a devil to compose on the screen. I nearly bought the EVF accessory but never got round to it. The IQ off the GF1 was very good however. It complimented my Canon gear and I would have a camera with me more often. Almost always.

I then saw the OMD range come out and the GX7. I looked at the EM5 and the GX7 and was split between possibly choosing one of these to upgrade the 12mp GF1.

Having hung on and procrastinated the OMD 10 arrived. I tried it at the NEC show. I was hooked and bought it!

It is a marvel of a camera. Very customisable which takes a little bit of working out and deciding what is right for you. Image quality is excellent. I print up to 20x16 and first image off this camera at 200 ISO is difficult to distinguish between the FF 5D at this print size.

So no Strawman not disappointed and for me the handling is great. But then I can't get on with Nikon cameras so I understand one size doesn't fit all.

Will I sell the Canon kit? Crossed my mind yes. But No. The Canon gear gives me a different option.

The more I use the OMD the more I like it and it is just a case of getting used to it.

The consumer will ultimately decide whether m4/3rds survives or not and that will be led by technological advances as camera's do get ever smaller. At this point it gives me a suitable alternative to full frame. It is lighter and more portable which means I have a camera that delivers excellent IQ and allows the creativity in control I want that a compact doesn't give. It means I always have a camera with me and I'm yet to explore its full capability. The wifi link to my iPad is brilliant and I want to explore what this could allow me to do particularly with some possible close up shots of birds on the feeders in the garden.

Each to their own really. I'd recommend the OMD 10 but it won't be for everyone.
Paul Morgan e2
13 16.1k 6 England
29 Mar 2014 3:06PM

Quote:I looked at the E-M10 thinking it could be just the solution for me. And to be honest it was the handling put me off. It was too small to hold comfortably and the controls were too fiddly


I found this was also a problem with the EM5, the grip was the first accessory I had to run out and buy.

If you can live with paying a little more the EM5 could well be better for you, it comes includes the grip + 45mm portrait lens for free, all in its a pretty good deal.
strawman e2
11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
29 Mar 2014 10:24PM
I think Paul and Coast probably have the answer for me personally, which is to treat the CSC as a compact replacement device and keep my SLR. With my compact I sacrifice a lot in handling to get portability, I was viewing this as a one does all device, perhaps I should view it as a compact replacement or go further up the range.

Anyway I have a sad confession to make, three times I have set off to replace my fairly aged dSLR, and err, Blush well I ended up buying other things. My plans for a 5D MKII resulted in my buying an aged convertible (it cost less). My next time to get a 7D, well I bought a new road bike, and err, shuffles feet, Blush this time I was going to get a EM10 and instead I bought my road bike some new lighter wheels and stuck the rest of the money in the bank. I set 15 personal bests on Strava today in the first light of summer today and a year and a bit after not buying a 7D I am 12Kg lighter and a lot fitter Smile

And I will be riding stage 1 of this years tour in June Wink 200Km of hills in the Etape De Yorkshire . I sort of promised them some of the cash. When I grow up I will buy a new camera.
Coast e2
6 1.5k 292 United Kingdom
29 Mar 2014 11:15PM
Don't grow up. Lol

I'm also a keen cyclist and looking forward to a few big events this year but V Jealous you're doing the Etape de Yorkshire. I'm doing the Manchester 52 again this year in an attempt to beat my 2h39m by getting under the 2h30. Also Pedal to Paris in September.

I will be at the Yorkshire stages of the TDF this July but as a Tour Maker. That, I hope, will be interesting.

With the OMD and the GF1 before it, I see it as giving you a light, pocketable and controllable camera system with fantastic IQ in comparison to even the best compacts out there such as the Canon GX1.

Good luck with the Etape.
strawman e2
11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
30 Mar 2014 10:58PM
Thanks coast Smile Good time for the Manchester 52. Pedal to Paris, something like that could be in the plan for next year.

On cameras I think you are correct in how I should view the EM10.

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