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Child photography laws Private land or public

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Loupix
Loupix  880 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
14 Mar 2009 - 9:09 PM

I am really sorry if this topic is done to death, I think it is really important for someone somewhere to put together a data sheet explaining what is and what is not law.

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf

this gives much information indeed but I cant find anything that informs me properly about child protection policies?

I volunteer at a local railway, and I have just been informed that is no longer permitted for a "member" (not public), to take photographs where children are in view.
I have been told by the "board of directors" that it is policy not of the railway but child protection in general, which they implied that everywhere that runs this type of events would have to have the same policies. (as a worker or member)

is this true?
I know that as I am on private land, I have to get permission, but this is not what they are saying

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Loupix
Loupix  880 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
14 Mar 2009 - 9:17 PM

http://tonysleep.co.uk/info/permissions-and-releases

this gives a little more info but still sketchy.

cameracat
cameracat  108578 forum posts Norfolk Island61 Constructive Critique Points
14 Mar 2009 - 10:36 PM


Quote: no longer permitted for a "member" (not public)

So what they are saying is, If your a member you can't take any photographs, But if your " Joe Public " you can.......?

So resign your membership, Become Joe Public and away you go...!

Because now the rules don't apply to you......Smile

EDIT: Sorry I just hate rules......The old saying that rules are for fools, And just a guide for the rest of us, Still holds true....

Last Modified By cameracat at 14 Mar 2009 - 10:38 PM
Loupix
Loupix  880 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
15 Mar 2009 - 12:43 AM

I thought about this, I could say I no lobger wish to be a member (for that day) then become a member again after.....

also from what I have read, if I stand 20 yards away from the main platform... which would take me to PUBLIC land I am able to take photos as long as they are on the public land... this would be my only way, last year I had several famalies ask me to take photos of them so this would be the only way of doing this. I wouldn't mind if I earned money from this, but I don't I do it purly to help public and railway.... sad when things get like this,

BHSnapper
BHSnapper  5 United Kingdom
15 Mar 2009 - 6:08 AM

Wow child protection...there aren't any laws to the best of my knowledge and I'm a teacher, teaching photography and taking photographs every week of children in my school and sometimes other schools at their request! The organisation though can set policies which then apply to their employees or helpers. If you then break those guidelines, they can dismiss you or force your resignation. My school does ask parents to give permission, in a sense by default, i.e. they have to tell us that their children must not be photographed otherwise it is assumed they have effectively given that permission. But in general it is almost impossible not to take photographs where there is public and where there may well be children in view. Which makes it virtually impossible for you to avoid breaking that barmy policy. So I fear it's either resign or give up.

Howard

samfurlong
15 Mar 2009 - 10:01 AM

If you are on their land then you have to abide by their rule however weird / contradictory / silly. End of story..

If you are in a public place then there are no rules, you can photograph away, kids or no kids.

Jestertheclown
15 Mar 2009 - 4:41 PM

I think Howard's right. I believe there are NO LAWS re. photographing children. I too work at a school and our policy is precisely the same as the one Howard describes. In other words, there is a small number of children who's parents have asked that I don't photograph them (I take the school photographs.) so therefore, I don't and they miss out IMHO.
Our local vicar used to complain when I took photos of our Nativity Plays etc. in his church. He said I couldn't do it because of the (much abused) Data Protection Act. I researched this and could find NOTHING IN LAW that prevents me from taking photos of children ANYWHERE, with or without parents' permission.
Obviously, I bow to parents' wishes but the situation does seem to exist that I cannot photograph certain children in school yet can take as many as I like, once they've passed the gates!
However, I can't see a way out of your predicament. If the railway says you can't do it, then you can't do it.
Bren.
ps. As I write this, on the desk in front of me is a list of eight children whose photos I cannot put onto the website I'm building for the school!

thewilliam
15 Mar 2009 - 7:22 PM

Our legal system has become so silly that I can understand why so many people now want to play safe.

No photography allowed = no danger of prosecution/law suits

It reminds me of the mediaeval attitude to witchcraft!

Loupix
Loupix  880 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
15 Mar 2009 - 7:54 PM


Quote: You're asking for clarification about the law, but that's not what the railway are saying - they say it's no longer permitted (under the railway's rules and the policy they're adopting), they aren't saying this due to a change in the law. They're claiming that they're subscribing to some child protection policy, ask to see it.

It's possible that the law says the railway should have health and safety and other policies, that's not to say that the contents of the policies themselves are law.

I totally understand this, if its a bylaw then you have to adhear to these rules, the railway are setting a child protection policy which will state among other things that no member is allowed to take a photograph that has any child under the age of 18, this I can accept, if this is a ruling by the board.

what they are saying is that its a ruling they are obliged by law to put into there child protection policy, this to me is rubbish, the railway does not have to have this in there child protrction policy, its not a requirement, just something they themselves have or are going to put into practice.

The problem is it will open a can of worms and will no doubt cause a lot of problems. it really is just a couple of so called higher ranking members causing some problems and I needed to clarify any law before putting my arguments. thanx guys

PS it might be a good idea in this day and age to put a sticky on some document that will either guide our fellow togs or inform them on what law is and isn't concerning photography, especially child photography because photography sounds very simlar to pornography in some peoples minds.

"Its a sad world we have created"

Jestertheclown
15 Mar 2009 - 8:19 PM

Hi Reas,
Your idea about finding and making public (on here at least) something official and legible, or a link to it, that we could all use and/or keep is a very good one.
Unfortunately, locating such a thing might be a different matter. I spent a long time on the internet the last time I looked and all the obvious sites are full of ambiguity and innuendo. You could read some of them for hours and all they've really said is 'Good Evening'.
Still, I think I'll find time to take a look anyway. A printed copy would shut up some of the parents/barrack room lawyers at work!
I'll let you know how I get on.

Last Modified By Jestertheclown at 15 Mar 2009 - 8:20 PM
BHSnapper
BHSnapper  5 United Kingdom
15 Mar 2009 - 8:30 PM

Here's the best reference I know, written by a keen photographer who also happens to be a professional lawyer...
http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php/

Howard

f8
f8  109169 forum posts England22 Constructive Critique Points
15 Mar 2009 - 8:35 PM

I was at the Chiltern Outdoor Museum a year or two ago taking shots of the exhibits (buildings) of which some school children were in the way, a woman came running over and said I must stop taking photographs. I enquired why, she said I might harm the children, to which I replied could you please get them out of the way then, she replied I can't do that, to which I replied no neither can I, and carried on taking my pictures.

Jestertheclown
15 Mar 2009 - 8:59 PM

Thanks for that Howard,
I'll read that properly when I've got time.
For now, I'm off to my sick bed.
G'night All.
Bren.

uggyy
uggyy  82104 forum posts Scotland9 Constructive Critique Points
15 Mar 2009 - 11:19 PM

Its ironic that one of the most active organisations for kids, the scouts, actually encouraged adults to take cameras and photo a recent walk I was at with the girlfriends wee lad...

Out of interest does the train organisation have a website and are any pictures on it with under 18's?

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225727 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
16 Mar 2009 - 12:39 PM


Quote: I was at the Chiltern Outdoor Museum a year or two ago taking shots of the exhibits (buildings) of which some school children were in the way, a woman came running over and said I must stop taking photographs. I enquired why, she said I might harm the children, to which I replied could you please get them out of the way then, she replied I can't do that, to which I replied no neither can I, and carried on taking my pictures.

LOL!!!

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