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Colour Management And Printing.

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stevebutler
29 Apr 2005 - 11:29 AM

Before I start, I know there are loads of threads on this and I have tried to find out as much as possible by searching the forums..but am stuck on a couple of points.....Here goes, I have just bought a Epson R1800 and Spyder2 to colour manage my system and hopefully produce some decent prints.I've got the relevant profiles for the Ilford paper I have purchased so I am ready to start printing. Before I start churning out loads of poor quality prints I would be grateful to any of you colour management experts to make sure I have got all the right boxes ticked.I am working on RGB files and have produced a profile for my monitor.

1) In View-Proof Set Up, What should I have set?

2) View Proof Colours.. Should I select this at any point.

3)In Print with Preview... Source, Proof or Document...If Proof is selected is this the paper profile.

4) Print Space Profile.. I presume this is the paper profile but please correct me if I am wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.

Steve!

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29 Apr 2005 - 11:29 AM

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AlanTW
AlanTW  11342 forum posts
29 Apr 2005 - 12:21 PM

Steve, you might like to read the excellent series of articles on colour management by Bob Johnson starting here . It will answer all of your questions

Alan

stevebutler
29 Apr 2005 - 12:33 PM

Thanks Alan, I have seen this article but I cant find the answers to my first 2 questions and I have seen other articles that conflict with my other questions. I would be grateful of a step by step guide from someone. It doesn't have to be long winded ..just simple yes/no answers will do.
Thanks anyway.

Steve!

stevebutler
29 Apr 2005 - 1:44 PM

Anyone Else...Please.

stevebutler
29 Apr 2005 - 5:29 PM

Ok, I have tried all the various options and settings but have ended up with a couple of washed out looking prints. Everytime I click on View proof colours (using the profiles for the paper) all the colours seem to bleed into each other and it just looks like a mess. Someone please help before I smash my PC and printer into bits.

gajj
gajj  1032 forum posts
29 Apr 2005 - 7:27 PM

I'm hoping someone will advise as I have similar frustrations with my limited knowledge. Yes/no answers or simple one or two words would be a godsend! Thank you, Steve, for asking (pleading?!).

User_Removed
29 Apr 2005 - 10:28 PM

Hi Steve

I use the R1800 as well as it's sister the R800.

First of all, you mention that you have profiles for the R1800 for use with Ilford paper. Can I ask if these have been 'made' for you 'cos as far as I know, Ilford do not produce R1800 profiles as yet (I started another thread about this the other day - did you see it?).

The R800 uses the same inks and the profiles for this printer are almost perfect but there are issues with black and white so hopefully Ilford will be producing bespoke profiles soon (again, go to that other thread and follow the link to register your interest in R1800 profiles).

Anyway, I work in the Adobe RGB colourspace i.e. my Photoshop working space is Adobe RGB so in Print with Preview, I have Source Space set to Adobe RGB.

In Print Space I have the appropriate Ilford profile (for Smooth Glossy or Smooth Pearl according to my paper choice).

Then click on 'properties', select 'Best Photo' and then choose either Premium Glossy or Premium Semi-Gloss as your paper type. If you want the Gloss Optimiser click it (I always use it as the prints have a better finish) then click 'Advanced'.

In the next box click on 'ICM' and then 'No Color Management' and then 'OK' all the way out and you should get a good quality print (I do anyway).

You may have to tinker slightly with print brightness until you get it exactly right due to the fact that the profile does not differentiate between with and without Gloss Optimiser and the use of the optimiser does darken the print somewhat.

Hope this helps

Barrie

stevebutler
30 Apr 2005 - 12:36 AM

Thanks for the reply Barrie, I am using the profiles for the R800 as I read in the other thread that these would be adequate for starters till the R1800 profiles were produced. When I click on view proof colours in PS (with the setup for my paper type) the picture turns into a right mess. All the colours seem to go blotchy and bleed together,especially the greens. I presumed that this was not normal. I thought it may give me an idea of how my finished print would look.As far as I am aware all my photoshop settings are correct, so I don't know why this is happening. Any ideas?

Steve!

User_Removed
30 Apr 2005 - 1:12 AM

I suspect that your PS colour management settings are not correct even though you think they are

Are you able to do a screen capture of the Color Management settings and post a link, or list them here?

Barrie

stevebutler
30 Apr 2005 - 1:25 AM

Not sure how to do a screen capture but the colour settings are as of this.


Adobe RGB1998, Euroscale Uncoated V2, Gray Gamma 2.2, Dot gain 20%......

Col Man Policies..All set to Preserve embedded
All 3 Boxes ticked

Conversion..Adobe (ACE), Perceptual, 2 boxes ticked

Advanced..No boxes ticked.

Thanks.

Steve!

User_Removed
30 Apr 2005 - 1:32 AM

One possible source of a problem could be that you have the 'preserve embedded profile' box checked. Do you have the profile mismatches boxes checked as well? If you don't then, regardless of the other colour space setting you have (Adobe RGB), it will use whatever is embedded in the image file (which may well be Adobe RGB but may NOT).

My settimgs (significant ones) are:

Advanced Mode checked.

Working Spaces --> RGB: Adobe RGB
Color Management Policies --> RGB: Preserve embedded profiles (I shoot in Adobe RGB)
Profile Mismatches: all checked

Conversion: Adobe (ACE)
Intent: Relative Colormetric
Advanced Controls: both boxes unchecked

It is so difficult to be more helpful without actually sitting at your computer but I hope this helps. What colorspace are you shooting in by the way?

Barrie
PS: I'm using Photoshop CS

stevebutler
30 Apr 2005 - 1:50 AM

Thanks again Barrie for taking time to reply.I shoot in Adobe Rgb and my settings are identical to yours. The only other thing I can think of is that I have unplugged my Old Canon printer and put my new epson in the same USB port. Could there be a possible conflict.

Also Barrie, when you press view proof colours when working on a image, do you get any extreme colour shifts.

Many thanks for your help on this. I appreciate it is difficult when you cannot see the PC and settings directly.

Steve!

User_Removed
30 Apr 2005 - 1:56 AM

I don't use proofing to be honest Steve but I have just taken a look. I used Proof setup and selected Windows RGB (not sure if that is the right thing to do 'cos the other options did not appear to be relevant as I am not outputting in CMYK.

I did notice that the colours destaurated slightly but there wasn't a great shift of any sort.

With regard to your printer, I assume you have uninstalled the Canon drivers and installed the Epson ones correctly (I'm sure you must have so it's probably a pretty stupid question).

Back to the monitor again, when you calibarted with the Spyder, did you set the profile that was created as your system profile?

Barrie

stevebutler
30 Apr 2005 - 2:37 AM

Yes, the canon drivers are deleted, I've just had a check around my system to make sure there are no traces left.

And yes the new profile created by the Spyder is set as my default.

I realise that you don't have to use proof colours to print out and you can set your settings in print with preview. But after reading up on Soft proofing, I assume that if you preview this in proof colours with your set paper type, that it should look something similar and only need a slight tweak to correct. I just don't want to get through loads of paper and ink before I know that it is set up correctly.

stevebutler
30 Apr 2005 - 3:39 AM

Barrie, I decided to ignore the Proofing setup and have a crack at printing with your reccomended settings. I am pleased to say that I have produced quite a decent image. It's not perfect and may nead a slight tweak but generally I am getting what I see on screen. The proofing side of things still baffles me but as I am getting somewhere it does not worry me.I an not quite sure what I had set differently but after going through everything as stated it seems to be OK. Please accept my thanks in helping me with this matter. I am most grateful. Just one more quick question if you have time regarding sharpening.....How much would you normally sharpen an image for printing.I realise that each image is different but as an example....For viewing on screen, say I have my settings at 100% amount and 1.0 Radius, How much would I generally increase this by for a sharp print.

Thanks.

Steve!

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