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fatfranksfolley
22 Jan 2013 - 11:53 PM

I don't know how others view the images posted here.I however am torn between two concepts.Do i comment add my two cents worth and risk the wrath of Cain by doing so.Or not comment and go with the flow.I personally have no problem with any feedback,good bad stupid.Its all good.In my view if one has the shot of a life time it will stand the test of time..and if not arguments about the value of the shot will have as much value as yesterday fish and chips wrapping .Question is can we crit and get away with it... do we seek out only the cracker shots that we can praise?I for one favour the speak your mind approach.No one ever grew by hearing what they wanted to hear.Just a question.

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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139367 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 12:00 AM

If you comment in the Critique Gallery, you can be sure that constructive comment is welcome. Smile

avacreates
23 Jan 2013 - 2:28 AM

I believe there is a positive way in which to critique especially if one has the interest of the photographer at heart to constructively help the person when one knows of a technique that would be useful. I recently found critique on a new upload of mine which would come in handy had I had the equipment needed to carry out the critique - still, I was happy that someone took the time to attempt to help me - it was appreciated.

keithh
keithh  1022556 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 8:50 AM

I wouldn't worry as the usual reaction of people is to ignore you and their followers will simply continue to pile on the praise.

I have critted a couple of the under-exposed nosferatu landscape club of late but you are largely wasting your time.

User_Removed
23 Jan 2013 - 9:31 AM

I think that one of the problems of "critiques" on a chat room site like this is that one never really knows the standing or expertise of the person giving the critique.

Last week I had a dozen of my prints "critiqued" by distinction panel members at an RPS advisory day. I learned a huge amount from the experience - but really only because I knew that each of the critics was a pre-eminent practitioner in his/her field. In that situation I was happy to spend several days correcting the many faults that had been identified.

With "amateur" critiques, like one might receive on this site, the temptation is to assume that anyone who comments positively on your image knows what they are talking about, while anyone who is negative about it is an ignorant numptie. Which is really not very helpful at all. I think that for negative critique to be useful, the critic has to carry some authority in the mind of the receiver.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 10:02 AM

Well you do need to be selective and generally there will be a number of 'critiquers' who mention either the same things or at least similar ones. So ignore the 'Lovely picture Bill' and 'Super shot Sydney' as they provide no help at all to anybody and according to the guidelines should not be posted, and select the repetitive ones after looking at the critiquers portfolios to see what you think of their expertise.

So generally the standing is not all that important what matters is the content and its relevance and perhaps whether or not you agree with it. If you continue to disagree with critique, then the answer is to stop posting there.

User_Removed
23 Jan 2013 - 10:25 AM

The other thing to bear in mind, Frank, is that it is virtually impossible to meaningfully critique many aspects of a photograph from a low-res web image on a computer monitor.

Some things - such as composition - might be legitimately commented upon (e.g. the missing top of the crane in your Docklands Regatta pic.) but most aspects of image quality will not be adequately reproduced in a web image.

The result is that a critique might reasonably be a firm negative "This..... is wrong with the image", but it can never be more than a tentative positive, such as "This.... might be good."

Dave_Collier
Dave_Collier e2 Member 8236 forum postsDave_Collier vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 11:53 AM

There are a couple of things that will make me ignore a critique; the first one is a comment that looks like it has come from a typical camera club judge which tries to interpret an image like the art world does trying to find hidden meanings.

Suggesting that you would have got a better image using a different viewpoint where there is no obvious way the viewpoint could be safely changed.

My other bugbear is the critique from someone who has no images in their portfolio so there is nothing to suggest to me that they know what they are talking about.

Last Modified By Dave_Collier at 23 Jan 2013 - 11:56 AM
mikehit
mikehit e2 Member 45758 forum postsmikehit vcard United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 12:11 PM


Quote: My other bugbear is the critique from someone who has no images in their portfolio so there is nothing to suggest to me that they know what they are talking about

I have head that from several people on different fora over the years and it is one I don't understand. That is like saying to someone 'show me what you can do before I listen to you'. I am pretty rubbish at painting and decorating, but I know a good job and a bad job when I see them. I look on criticism as either valid or not and a lot of that assessment comes from the tone and wording.
I have known people do some really good work but don't post it because they don't think it is good enough, or they concentrate on club competitions and not posting on line.

psiman
psiman  10551 forum posts Wales
23 Jan 2013 - 12:20 PM


Quote: a comment that looks like it has come from a typical camera club judge which tries to interpret an image like the art world does trying to find hidden meanings.


Crikey you go to different types of camera clubs to me Wink. In my experience camera club judges tend to be rather more superficial in their judging looking for compositional and technical elements such as those old favourites "the rule of Thirds" and a "little bit of red". Having co-judged one club comp I can appreciate just how difficult it can be sometimes to provide constructive criticism or even to articulate why you like a particular image.

Simon

JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53469 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 1:07 PM

Hi Frank,

Hard to know, the safest place is as Carabosse mentions - the critique gallery.
Personally I don't care too much about adding pretty words with comments on my shots, tell me how you see it - then (as Dave says above) I'll weigh your comments from how i like your shots in similar areas.
Some of my fav comments are from people who regularly produce good work, and also any comment that suggests another alternative approach.
Ages ago there was a tell it how it is group - fabulous you know you could just say what you felt and suggest something you felt may be better - no wasted time wrapping in silk.

But lets be gentle to new posters and learn who likes what.

Cheers
Stuart

keithh
keithh  1022556 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 1:43 PM

I've always been an advocate of people using EPZ as they see fit within the T&Cs of the site but there are a few who sadly risk deluding themselves as to the quality of their work.

This is OK when it doesn't amount to much but I am always reminded of a member some years ago, who, buoyed on by his voting and comment success, borrowed money to set up a photography sales business. Sad

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 2:04 PM


Quote:
My other bugbear is the critique from someone who has no images in their portfolio so there is nothing to suggest to me that they know what they are talking about.

Remember what George Bernard Shaw said - "He who can does, he who cannot teaches". So in effect the acceptable is that you do not of necessity need to be skilled at doing what you teach. Similarly it is always possible to advise and teach composition etc without being fully capable of doing so yourself.

I am not saying I totally agree with that but it an accepted school of thought.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 2:09 PM


Quote: I am always reminded of a member some years ago, who, buoyed on by his voting and comment success, borrowed money to set up a photography sales business

Seems odd but I suppose the 'mutual appreciation society' which seems to be the general gallery could give such cause because of the voting system. I am also amazed by the beginners who add 'so & so photographic' on their pictures, advertising as a beginner?????? Some of those offer pictures on web sites for sale as well - I wonder if they keep the taxman busy with their profits!!!!!!!

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 23 Jan 2013 - 2:09 PM
brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 109963 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
23 Jan 2013 - 2:24 PM


Quote: I am always reminded of a member some years ago, who, buoyed on by his voting and comment success, borrowed money to set up a photography sales business

the corollary of that is also true, my images that get little positive feedback here tend to be the ones that make me the most money when selling via local Gallaries and craft fairs Wink

I find the giving of critique can be a useful learning experience (if done seriously) as it makes me think about what I like and dislike about an image and more importantly, why

When training as a Trainer (things like neg skills, interpersonal skills, coaching and critiquing) I was taught that there are two basic reasons for giving feedback.

The first and most common was to make the person giving it feel good about themselves

The second was to give information which could be understood by the person receiving it so that it would help them to improve their performance

Guess which is the most commonly given via the internet? Tongue

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