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Copyright Dilemna

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studioline
2 Mar 2010 - 7:50 AM

I went to print my photographs out at two major shops and have advised that photographs are copyrighted. I explained that the photographs were mine and that the EXIF data would show that plus there were also photographs of me there kicking around on set. Apparently this is not enough as they are desperately trying to protect professional photographers from being ripped off by chancers scanning in pics and taking photos of photos.

Anyway the dilemma is that I need to provide proof of me being a professional when I am not. The simplest way is for me to bring in a business card that I make up claiming that I have a business in photography and for me that is like a slap in the face to pro photographers. I feel that there is a world of difference from someone like me who tries their hand and a pro photographer that puts their neck out on the line every time.

I have to admit I do use shops to print out my first runs of pics as they are just so easy to get a 5 by 7 but may have to go online now to avoid such issues.

In the end the company involved did hand over the pics but only after Calumet phoned to confirm the order for studio equipment. Pays to use a good firm. That is what I call customer service.

The other firm that ran off a second version set was Jessops. They were happy to do so as they could see the raw files and hazarded a guess that a pro would not hand over all the raw files.

Frustration. I need a solution. These stores do provide a useful service particularly when you want the photos quick and you do not want another printer sitting in your house.

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2 Mar 2010 - 7:50 AM

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Henchard
Henchard  92744 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
2 Mar 2010 - 8:10 AM

Sounds like complete and utter nonsense. If the shops have concerns all they need do is ask you to sign a standard disclaimer that you own copyright and will indemnify them from any claims.

I suggest that you upload to DS Colour Labs in Manchester who nearly always get your order back to you the next day. Good quality, fast service and none of the above nonsense.


Edit: With Jessops showing an in store price of 74p for a 7x5 print (1 hour) or 69p next day and DSCL charging 15p; just wondered why anyone would use them?

Last Modified By Henchard at 2 Mar 2010 - 8:16 AM
studioline
2 Mar 2010 - 8:21 AM

i heard that DS is very very good. Someone suggested that to me last night. They said that they deliver really quickly too. One day I think.
The price in Jessops was expensive but I needed to get these shots printed to go. I did ask for the indemnity form but they did not have one or they did not want to give it to me. They are going to speak to their line manager to get clarification.
Thanks for reaffirming ds labs. I will give them a try.

photostoreuk
2 Mar 2010 - 8:26 AM

ds are very good unless they get it wrong and then well they aren't lol.

On two occasions ive ordered off them, im still waiting for 10 a4 prints i ordered on 4th november, never get a response that is any help and on another occasion i got my prints and found a full wedding, Seeing im not a wedding photographer and would never photograph one i was very surprised.

The amount of prints they do a day a small mix up is acceptable i now pick my prints up in there shop and every time there is at least 10 sacks full of post to go out with prints in.

I still use them despite my problems and would recommend them for quality to anyone

studioline
2 Mar 2010 - 11:34 AM

I am speaking to customer services and they are going to research on camera copyright protection. My suggestion was to use the EXIF data viewer to identify ownership. Am I correct in saying that the copyright data cannot be altered easily thereafter.

strawman
strawman  1022006 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
2 Mar 2010 - 11:36 AM

EXIF data can be edited, so sorry I do not think that provides protection or evidence.

studioline
2 Mar 2010 - 12:27 PM

I just hate the thought of having a card that says photographer. I think that there are just so many people now pushing into the pro photography arena without being competent or qualified.
I can see where you are coming from though. I may just have some cards made up saying student photographer.
I wonder if any other people have had the same sort of experience.

mlewis
mlewis  91476 forum posts United Kingdom
2 Mar 2010 - 12:35 PM

It sounds like you need to get your photos printed elsewhere. I have never had any copyright issues. Photos that I send for printing have the copyright section in the IPTC data (it is not in the EXIF data) filled out with my name.

edsephiroth
2 Mar 2010 - 12:40 PM

Yeah, it's admirable that the shops are trying to protect photographers rights and not let shysters rip us off, it's also ok that they're perhaps trying to inform members of the public who are simply ignorant that they can't just print off other people's images. However, having been questioned on no less than three occasions when for one reason or another I've needed to go into a shop to get my pictures printed quickly, I can tell you that the overriding feeling is one of downright anger! It's thoroughly insulting to have someone peek at your shots over your shoulder (or after printing) and then, largely based on your appearance (I tend to slop around in hoodies, jeans etc when I don't have any particular reason to dress cool/smart) that YOU couldn't possibly have taken anything other than wonky holiday snaps of Facebook-fodder. It's f'ing infuriating and insulting, and I'd rather they just kept to posting signs up.

WelshKiwi
WelshKiwi  63231 forum posts Wales2 Constructive Critique Points
2 Mar 2010 - 12:52 PM

I am just wondering if the shop concerned has had a problem in the past and they have been warned by some official department and they are being extra cautious.

The reason I say this is because a professional imaging lab that our company uses has recently refused to print images from a client of ours as it was copyrighted to the Armed Services...

When our client asked us for clarification and asked us to see if we could sort it out (she wanted a copy of her father in uniform as the original was getting a bit tatty) I asked the lab what the story was...

Apparently professional labs are monitored and checked for this sort of thing (especially if someone dobs them in) and can get into serious trouble.

Maybe the shop is just excersing caution in order to protect not only you, but themselves, after all, they are turning down money which is not very common these days so there must be some reason behind their actions.

Just my two pennies worth anyway and doesnt really solve your problem.

Lee Smile

jakabout
jakabout  101741 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
2 Mar 2010 - 1:16 PM

I'm a printer and I don't actively check to see that the images I'm printing belong to the sender of the pictures .... it's implied that they have the right to produce copies if they have the images in their possession and are asking to have them reprinted.

I can think of only one time I knew for a fact that the image didn't belong to the customer and I said so (and didn't print the item), but besides that ... I'd not get very far in this business if I questioned the origin of every image landing in my inbox!!

I think it's another instance of Mad Busybody Britain frankly - gets on my nerves big time. Having said that I'm putting a notice on my website saying "It's accepted that you own copyright of the images sent to us to make prints. The customer accepts that the responsibility for any repercussions regarding infringement of copyright belongs to the customer and the customer alone."

Done like a dinner.

Last Modified By jakabout at 2 Mar 2010 - 1:17 PM
edsephiroth
2 Mar 2010 - 1:39 PM


Quote: When it's happened to me (in Asda) "these are obviously professional shots, I have to ask if you own the copyright", I've been flattered!

Yeah, fair point - I guess done with the right tone, it could well be taken as a compliment!

I suppose in my example/experience the staff member has approached it with more of a smug "knowing" approach, which of course is very annoying.

Perhaps its partly photography snobbery too, which really gets my goat. I wanted a new lens, so I thought I'd try the local independent outlet rather than online, to support local business and a local photographer, even if it meant paying a few quid more.
I said "hi...do you have the Sigma 12-24mm for Nikon?".
He looked me up and down and said "not for a DX sensor".
I walked out.Wink

discreetphoton
discreetphoton Site Moderator 93453 forum postsdiscreetphoton vcard United Kingdom20 Constructive Critique Points
2 Mar 2010 - 1:49 PM

Hope you waved your D700 at him as you left...

studioline
5 Mar 2010 - 7:45 PM

Hi all. I did get an apology from the head office and they have spoken to the staff concerned. I did say that the staff where doing their job however did mention that they needed to listen to reason or find someone who could effectively judge whether I was a good amateur photographer with great studio equipment. I still have to go into the shop for the next set of prints which is tomorrow! Will keep you posted.

loweskid
loweskid  132042 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2010 - 9:43 PM


Quote: Even if you're not in business you're doing no wrong to have a card that says "Your Name Photography" with your contact details.

Slightly at a tangent but I've found it useful to carry a few cards like this. Works wonders when I've been approached by the police in Manchester - just flashed the card and said I'm taking a few pics for my website and stock agency (all true).. "no problem sir, carry on'.

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