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Could it be a scam by Julian Assange ?

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cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
21 Aug 2012 - 9:07 AM


Quote: So if most agree that the ultimate aim is to get him on US soil, would you also agree that this alleged assault/rape could well be made up? If you pay someone enough they will make anything up.

Could be but Sweden is a very unlikely country to choose for such a plot, unlike the UK they don't toady up to the US and extradite someone at the drop of a hat, and they are certainly not going to do it if there is a possibility of capital punishment being involved.

Me thinks he is just afraid of being a convicted sex offender, and is creating a large smoke screen which has got a lot of people defending him, even though many of them know he has a real case to answer. He put himself in this position and should now have the guts to face the accusations in a Swedish court.

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21 Aug 2012 - 9:07 AM

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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2012 - 10:27 AM

If the Swedish charges are trumped up, Assange should voluntarily go to Sweden, denounce his accusers in court and - if successful - claim damages (if Swedish law permits).

Seems a bit reluctant to do that........ hmm!

The US would have far more to lose than to gain by pursuing Assange. They already have the alleged originator of the leaks (Bradley Manning) locked up.... and that has caused controversy.

mikehit
mikehit  56294 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2012 - 11:51 AM

The Americans are very schizophrenic when it comes to things like this. I get the impressions that part of the furore about Manning is the length to which an American citizen has been locked up under the same terms as those nasty Islamic terrorists who are trying to subvert the American way of life. But Asange, being non-America, will likely fall under the auspices of the latter and that will concentrate on his being the person who has permitted publishing of the secret documents.
If the American administration want him they wil pursue him: the sense of vengeance in American psyche is very strong and they won't care what the world thinks (as Guantanamo has shown).

collywobles
21 Aug 2012 - 11:56 AM

Why are we talking about America - its Sweden where he is charged.

mikehit
mikehit  56294 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2012 - 12:00 PM

Because of the suspicion that if he is extradited to Sweden, the US will apply for extradition over the pond. Asange claims he will go to Sweden for questioning if Sweden assures him they will not extradite him which clearly they can't do until they see any charges/papers the US produce.
Like others, I am puzzled that the US has not applied for extradition from UK so it is probably a side issue but that is the claimed reason that Asange will not go to Sweden so is instrumental to his claim for asylum in the Ecuadorean embassy.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2012 - 12:07 PM

The official US response to Assange's balcony speech (from the Herald Sun of Australia):


Quote: In his weekend balcony address, 41-year-old Assange accused the US Government of a witchhunt against himself and his Wikileaks supporters.

But the US Government hit back saying the case had nothing to do with them and was solely a matter for Sweden and Britain and now Ecuador which had chosen to "insert" itself into the fracas.

"He is making all kinds of wild assertions about us when in fact his issue with the government of the United Kingdom has to do with whether he's going to face justice in Sweden for something that has nothing to do with WikiLeaks, it has to do with charges of sexual misconduct," State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said.

"He is clearly trying to deflect attention away from the real issue, which is whether he's going to face justice in Sweden."


joolsb
joolsb  927115 forum posts Switzerland38 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2012 - 12:15 PM

It does seem strange. Firstly, the US haven't (yet) made an extradition request for Assange and haven't (yet) even expressed any interest in charging him. As far as the US is concerned, they have the guy responsible for obtaining the sensitive info in the first place so there's not a huge amount to be gained by going after Assange (who isn't a US citizen) for an alleged crime that it would be difficult to prove falls under the jurisdiction of the US in any case.

Either Assange truly believes what he's saying (and it's been reported that he's a bit of a narcissist so this is possible) or it's all an elaborate smokescreen. It's just a shame that police resources have to be tied up watching the Ecuadorian Embassy round the clock just in case he decides to do a runner - and we all know who has to pay for that.

Good grief! Am I really agreeing with CB here? Note to self: must try harder... Wink

Last Modified By joolsb at 21 Aug 2012 - 12:19 PM
collywobles
21 Aug 2012 - 5:44 PM


Quote: Because of the suspicion that if he is extradited to Sweden, the US will apply for extradition over the pond.

Tough! - he knew what he was doing when he got involvd with Wikileak......

spaceman
spaceman  105166 forum posts Wales3 Constructive Critique Points
23 Aug 2012 - 6:45 PM

This piece by Glenn Greenwald is worth looking at.

mikehit
mikehit  56294 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
24 Aug 2012 - 8:18 AM

This is particularly cogent comment:


Quote: It would be genuinely nice to think that the same British government that refused to extradite the mass rapist Augusto Pinochet has suddenly developed a devoted passion for ensuring that alleged sex assault offenders are brought to justice just as it would be nice to believe that the sudden interest in denouncing Ecuador's press freedom record was driven by some newly discovered and authentic concern in the west for civil liberties protections in South America. But as Milne put it last night with great understatement: "such posturing looks increasingly specious." As he rhetorically asked:


"Can anyone seriously believe the dispute would have gone global, or that the British government would have made its asinine threat to suspend the Ecuadorean embassy's diplomatic status and enter it by force, or that scores of police would have surrounded the building, swarming up and down the fire escape and guarding every window, if it was all about one man wanted for questioning over sex crime allegations in Stockholm?"

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102286 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
31 Aug 2012 - 5:59 PM


Quote: Because of the suspicion that if he is extradited to Sweden, the US will apply for extradition over the pond.

Tough! - he knew what he was doing when he got involvd with Wikileak......

I'm back to thoroughly disagreement mode with you Colin!
First of all, as has already been pointed out, the Swedes could interview Assange here in Britain. If they won't this could only mean they will in fact allow the US to have him extradited. What other reason could there be?
Someone in an earlier post pointed out that the Swedes are neutral and would not allow the US to take Assange if it meant the death penalty or a very long prison sentence.
I would also point out that not all Swedes are neutral - at the moment there is a US - favourable right-wing influence (Carl Bildt) for instance in Sweden
Secondly, he's not actually being charged with an offence; he's simply wanted for questioning. The women concerned changed their stories. Why? Assange may or not have behaved in a very gentlemanly fashion, but the women were consensual adults and we don't really know the true circumstances - we weren't there.
The simple fact is, and I use the word fact advisedly here, is that the US and UK governments have committed infinitely more heinous crimes that anything Assange has been accused of.
Assange and the Wikileaks team have uncovered mass slaughter, rendition and general dirty tricks by US and UK governments and these governments are making sure that no more of the real truth doesn't come out.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven and our so called democratic media toadies up to these despicable politicians - just as they did over the Iraq war and 9/11.

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