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Quote: I didn't say that, and if the best you can do is to make stuff up
You said that the sentence:
Quote: I believe taking vitamin B and plenty of exercise are some of the best ways to combat depression.
The Royal College of Psychiatrists recommend taking exercise and having a healthy diet, as, to quote them, running short of vitamins 'only makes matters worse'.
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in general I agree Judi, but he has a habit of ignoring inconvenient information:For example?
read the rest of the post Stolzy
Quote: In our present society the work ethic is such that depression is seen as malingering and often the first time someone gets any real help is after their first suicide attempt (assuming they weren't successful)
Which is precisely why people who are experiencing symptoms of depression should go to their doctor and get help, because they are ill rather than feeling "bad" or "down".
Quote: You seem to have a problem with your spelling which is normally good.
Is that because your ego is rattled?
No, its because I'm perched on the edge of an armchair
Quote: I have heard that Prozac and other drugs are dangerous and actually drive people to kill themselves.
Very complicated. Suicide is a symptom of the illness, so its very hard to statistically separate an effect of the drug from the disease process.
Quote: Now I don't know for certain if that is true but do I know, and you should know, that such statements have been regularly made in the media by medical experts and should not be ignored.
The science is complicated, journalists like easy stories
Quote: What you conveniently overlook, Stolzy, is that the Medical Profession themselves can't agree on what is safe and what is not safe; what is efficacious and what is not.
Opinions are irrelevant, just judge by the science.
The Royal College of Psychiatrists recommend taking exercise and having a healthy diet, as running short of vitamins 'only makes matters worse'.
but they didn't say.
Quote: taking vitamin B and plenty of exercise are some of the best ways to combat depression.
Which is poppycock.
Quote: I consider myself fortunate that I have never suffered from depression, but I have worked in this area of medicine and science for a long time...
I'd take what John says as more authority on the subject, as he has worked in the area of medicine.
Maybe people missed that bit of information from the beginning of the thread.
No they put the exercise first and the healthy diet with vitamins second. And...?
Quote: unless you would like to drect me to the randomised clinical trials which support your thesis.
Well, apart from the Finnish one referred to earlier, for example here is one from the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Erasmus Medical Centre in Rotterdam, that studied 3,884 people and concluded "Hyperhomocysteinemia, vitamin B(12) deficiency, and to a lesser extent, folate deficiency were all related to depressive disorders". "Vitamin B(12) may be causally related to depression"
Quote: I'd take what John says as more authority on the subject, as he has worked in the area of medicine
Is he a qualified doctor or psychiatrist currently practising in the field? He missed out that bit of information. His profile says he's a writer.
Related, but not the cause...
It may not be in his profile, but it was stated at the beginning of this thread. Many people omit information about themselves from their profiles.
Quote: Done that, nothing found on NLM
strange that Stolzy because I found them most informative:
and I found this part:
Quote: Depression can be caused by the loss of a spouse or close friend, chronic pain and illness, difficulty getting around, frustration with memory loss, trouble adapting to a life change such as moving from a home to a retirement facility, or changes within the family.
most interesting in view of your stance on the subject?
Quote: Opinions are irrelevant, just judge by the science.
What science? We are continually bombarded with supposed certainties in the medical scientific world only to be later told the opposite. Just how scientific is medical science?
Medical science is influenced by the drug companies where profits seem to come before people.
I met a woman the other day ( South African expression for a while ago )who had been trying to combat her depression with herbalists, acupuncture, meditation and many other "natural" avenues.
She came into the studio, sat down, burst into tears and then said "I want you to make me look happy".
We didn't start with the session until she'd had a cup of tea and we'd had a long talk. She firmly believed she was mentally ill, as in going mad. She couldn't remember things, didn't want to get up in the morning, couldn't face daily life. She was getting worse, despite her natural medication and effort.
I showed her a few sites on the internet, dedicated to depression and the treatment thereof. I told her about the hippocampus and showed her the source of this research and explained that depression was not a "mental" illness but a physical one, where a part of your brain is broken. It's just that people can't see it like a broken leg or a cut.
She wept several times during this time and in the end she gave me the most beautific smile and said "thank you, you've shown me I'm not going mad. I will go and see my doctor."
She phoned me a little while ago and is doing well. I did nothing but show her that she was experiencing a physical illness and that without proper help she'd not get better, despite all her efforts to do so with natural medicine and "changing thought patterns".
Quote: It may not be in his profile, but it was stated at the beginning of this thread.
All I could find at the beginning of the thread was:
Quote: I have worked in this area of medicine and science
which could involve cleaning the floors of a psychiatric hospital, or it could be writing about it, or it could be being a qualified psychiatrist.
I havent read the full thread, so apologies if I repeat what someone else has said.
I have suffered depression since I was 16, so over 20 years now.
For me it comes in waves, but never truly goes, the last wave started about 10 years ago, and in the past year I have managed to get it under control.
It can be extremely debilitating. And people saying 'get over it', 'its not that bad' or 'we all get a bit down' just makes it worse. Depression isn't being a bit down!
I also find it irritating when people poo poo anti depressants, ok they're not for everyone, but when people try to make out that I or anyone else who takes them are weak and feeble minded it really p***es me off.
I dont what to make you feel worse by saying how my depression has lasted so long. For me its been a mixture of genetics and one bad situation after another. But there is light at the end of the tunnel, but dont be afraid to ask for whatever her you need to get there.
On depression and vitamin B.
Williams AL, Cotter A, Sabina A, Girard C, Goodman J, Katz DL.The role for vitamin B-6 as treatment for depression: a systematic review. Fam Pract. 2005 Oct;22(5):532-7.
Hvas AM, Juul S, Lauritzen L, Nex° E, Ellegaard J. No effect of vitamin B-12 treatment on cognitive function and depression: a randomized placebo controlled study. J Affect Disord. 2004 Sep;81(3):269-73.
Both are negative, there are no other randomised trials of vit B in depression.
Quote: He missed out that bit of information
HTH. PhD Thesis: Serotonin and the mechanism of action of antidepressants. Univ. Soton 1983. I've worked in the field ever since. Happy to send you a publication list if your interested.
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