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Quote: You know .... this is what Stolzy (and myself as direct result of experience) was trying to say - don't listen to "homespun" advice. Get help. Depression is not for sissies
Edit: I don't claim to have any knowledge of John's research and don't say he aligns with my point of view either.... but what I DO know is that depression is serious. It's wonderful that you can talk about it - so many people are ashamed. But don't dismiss it as something you can sort out on your own. If it's true depression you need help No shame in that.
I don't think 'Croftsphoto' is 'looking for a barney'
I think he talks a lot of sense.
However, to return to the important issue, I don't think any of this is homespun advice. I think there has been a good deal of excellent advice on this thread.
This 'homespun' advice has been a reflection of the differing opinions of scientists, professors and doctors. The fact is that there is huge disagreement in the medical profession and so it is pointless and just plain illogical to have complete faith in them. Nevertheless I think we have all on this thread (even myself) recommended consulting a GP about depression. However, GP's don't necessarily know everything about the drugs they administer.
It is down to the patient to give the doctor feedback all the time. From my personal experience, the best help the GP may give is to help the patient to get some sleep. I think even Stolzy would agree with me that sleep is an absolutely crucial starting point to achieve and maintain good mental and physical health.
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Quote: The fact is that there is huge disagreement in the medical profession and so it is pointless and just plain illogical to have complete faith in them.
Very true. The mother of a friend of mine has M.E.; she saw many so-called professionals who just dismissed the condition out of hand!
Luckily she joined a support group for sufferers and was pointed in the right direction.
Similarly, even in this day and age the advice, to those with undiagnosed depression, from some busy GPs can amount to no more than "Pull yourself together".
There's a lot to be said for homespun advice!
I think we have a fundamentally different view of how the world works. I see the world in terms of the scientific method. That means I challenge statements I see as unproven, and prefer to have a base of evidence to judge how things are. You have a sense of fittness and rightness with which you interpret the world.
Our two world views are so different that it makes it hard for us to communicate. its fun debating these things with you, but in the end even agreeing to differ seems like an aspiration.
And don't even get me started on ME
Total reliance on science is perhaps a little naive, and can even be dangerous - when science changes its mind every couple of days! Lol!
In matters of the mind, science is really in the amoeba stage of development.
Quote: Total reliance on science is perhaps a little naive, and can even be dangerous - when science changes its mind every couple of days! Lol!
Science has always been in a state of flux, hypotheses and theories change all the time. That's how its supposed to be. Its not like some giant jigsaw when you can say "its finished!"
Quote: In matters of the mind, science is really in the amoeba stage of development.
Perhaps, but it has saved countless people from suicide, schizophrenics who can manage to live in society rather than institutions, ditto bipolar patients, ditto epileptics, ditto anxiety disorders, ditto post-traumatic stress disorder....easy to dismiss if you don't come across people with such dreadful disorders too often.
Exactly so - that is why it should sometimes be treated as light entertainment!
Quote: And don't even get me started on ME
Go on......I'd be interested.
ME is also known as CFS these days. Article here.
Quote: Very true. The mother of a friend of mine has M.E.; she saw many so-called professionals who just dismissed the condition out of hand!
Hi, there CB!
Yes M.E. is a tricky one, isn't it? I reckon it is perhaps even more difficult than depression to understand, but it is only too real for the sufferer.
How much is it psychosomatic or how much is it physical?
I don't know. Does anyone?
It can of course be argued that almost all diseases have at least some mental component.
The trouble is that in the West we arrogantly tend to ignore the overview in all things in society as well as medical matters. We spend too much time in tackling symptoms instead of attacking the cause. I think in medical matters, as with societal problems, we have to be deal with problems holistically. Surely every organism is a mass of interacting elements, interdependent on one another.
I think that as wonderful as much Western medical science is, we need to respect the enormous contribution that the East has made, particularly in recognising the holistic perspective in medicine and life generally.
Nowhere is this more true, I feel, than in cases of depression.
Well I had rare physical, and fairly horrific-looking, ailment which, only 3 years ago, put me in hospital for 5 months and at one point looked as if it would lead to my demise. (As you will have guessed, it didn't! )
The medical profession do not have any idea of the cause of it - not a clue. It is a mystery. But that doesn't mean it isn't real.
Similarly ailments of the mind can be real. But, because they rarely have a physical manifestation, such ailments are much easier to dismiss than what I had, which was only too obvious.
Quote: ...but in the end even agreeing to differ seems like an aspiration.
LOL. I appreciate what I interpret as a good humoured comment.
Actually, I think I share much of your desire for proof in these, and indeed all matters, but in the absence of proof, I suppose the difference is that I tend philosophically to respect the combination of both empirical and rationalist arguments.
Quote: LOL. I appreciate what I interpret as a good humoured comment.
You interpret it correctly, but I'm serious in that I cannot understand where you are coming from (and vice-versa i suspect). Your post above is a perfect case in point. I disagree with almost every word, but there is little point in discussing because we come at it from such different directions, its pointless.
Quote: Go on......I'd be interested.
I don't want to hijack this thread - start another one and I might chip in
There is precious little "proof" of anything when you get down to the nitty gritty. Much scientific proof is actually based on theory and belief.
Wanting everything to be based on proof may be analogous to a desire for a comfort blanket. This cannot, sadly, always be provided.
Sometimes there exists a condition. And something has to be done about it. End of story.
Quote: don't want to hijack this thread - start another one and I might chip in
O.K. I might do that. I'm not sure how soon, probably not long, though.
Quote: Much scientific proof is actually based on theory and belief.
No, proof comes from experiment.
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