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quengmel
quengmel  3 United Kingdom
10 Dec 2011 - 10:17 PM

Hi everyone, just wanna share an experience i've just had a few hours ago.
First of all i'm a beginner photographer who still has a lot to learn. I haven't had any formal training or anything as such and most of what i know on how to use my dslr are from books and sites as this.

Anyway, i was at a dinner party a few hours ago and the dad of the bday celebrant has a dlsr. He was using it in full auto mode all the time, so with the little knowledge i've got i just showed him a few things to do. Like increasing the iso so he doesn't always have to use the pop up flash. Now bear in mind that the lighting in the restaurant is your typical resto lighting...full of incandescent light.
Anyway, this guy approached me and spoke to me in a dismissive and arrogant manner by telling me that it's better to use flash in this occassion coz it's easier to edit photos with flash rather than taking the photos using the available light in the resto. Now, a lot of stuff that i've read tells me to use available light as much as possible, and to avoid using pop up flash to avoid that dear in the headlights effect.
Now this guy claims to have been in the biz for ove 20 years now. I'm not saying that i was right but the way he spoke to me and humiliated me infront of other people was kinda discouraging to continue with the hobby.
I know this is kinda long but are professional photographers really that arrogant and dismissive of newbies who wants to learn more?
I wanna hear your views especially the pros. Thanks. Apologies for the length.

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10 Dec 2011 - 10:17 PM

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Kris_Dutson
10 Dec 2011 - 10:35 PM

I doubt the guy who humiliated you was a pro; we're too cynical to humiliate people. Wink

Overread
Overread  63746 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2011 - 10:53 PM

Pros are as diverse as the non-pros
You get the good - the bad and the darn right ugly Tongue

As for the lighting, if its lights that vary their colour temperature over time then flash would indeed be a better approach since it would at least allow for a constant colour temperature (provided flash is the primary source of light over the main subject).

User_Removed
10 Dec 2011 - 10:55 PM

Do you think the guy was right or wrong? Do you think if you hadn't been a beginner you might have had the knowledge to be able to argue back.

Some DSLRs aren't good at high ISO, and what might look like great available light pictures on the back of the camera can be very disappointing later on a large screen. Some DSLRs have better flash systems than others and don't always do the 'caught in the headlights' effect.

If you're going to stick your neck out and tell someone how they should use a camera you need to beware of someone contradicting you...

bagman
bagman  365 forum posts United States
10 Dec 2011 - 10:56 PM

Sorry he humiliated you the way he did, but that's not professional by no means, let alone being decent. I have photographed for most of my life and rarely ever used flash. ISO and top grade fast lenses. I found you can still adjust nicely in photoshop in most cases if you set the camera to the proper lighting. You did right because most people do not like flash in their face so you get around squinting and closed eyes. Most of the time they do not even know you have taken the picture unless you are posing them. Your limited knowledge had nothing to do with it. Any helpful criticism or advice is always welcome, but surely not that type. So sorry that happened.
Frank.

strawman
strawman  1022004 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2011 - 10:57 PM

It could well be he felt that you coming over to advise him was a bit arrogant, and it could well be for valid reasons he was using flash and you came across as offering advice without having the experience to back it.

You see you going up and offering advice could well have been humiliating to him as he works as a professional photographer and there you were at his kids party in front of people telling him he was doing it wrong. Think of it from both sides and move on. Depending on the situation I could see how you may have been in the wrong.

Its life. advice is best given to someone who asks for it, otherwise leave alone. If a person is happy taking photo's leave well alone. If they were frustrated/having problems offer advice. Do you remember the Harry Enfield character who's catch phrase was

"you don't want to do it like that"

Like so many things, there is more than one way to take photo's no right or wrong.

Also if they were trying to catch a moment, your intervention may have meant the moment was lost...........

I have just given you advice, you may not have wanted it or even think it a bit arrogant of me.

Last Modified By strawman at 10 Dec 2011 - 11:00 PM
cameracat
cameracat  108578 forum posts Norfolk Island61 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2011 - 11:07 PM

Agree with Kris entirely.....Grin

Who ever he was, He sounds like a no nothing pratt...." Use head on " On-Board " flash to make the editing easier " What a load of rubbish.....!!!!!!!!

That said he could have been a reject press photographer, Some of them use head on flash for everything......Sad

Bottom line, Whatever lighting you choose for whatever occasion, Be it ambient/natural, Speedlight of gun powder on a stick, You would choose the lighting according to the intention of your images, ie: How you want the end [product to look.....!!!!!!!!!!!

So if your taking piccies in a nice low light cafe to amplify the ambience of the said premises and the comfy atmosphere of the occasion, The last furking thing you want to do, Is light it up like a dam football stadium on steriods.......Smile

Simple really......Me would have told him to go forth and multiply, Because I'm diplomatic like that......Wink

Last Modified By cameracat at 10 Dec 2011 - 11:15 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139392 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2011 - 11:10 PM

He sounds more like a professional prat! Wink

quengmel
quengmel  3 United Kingdom
10 Dec 2011 - 11:10 PM

@strawman....
It wasn't the celebrants dad that told me, it was another guest in the party who told me about the flash thing. The celebrant's dad was actually thankful because he learnt something new. And the way i showed him to increase the iso was like, hey wanna see a new trick kinda thing....
@Chris_L....
i didn't tell the dad how to use his camera, i just showed something i know. Beginner or not, i wasn't expecting that kind of criticism from a so called pro.

For me, there are better ways to criticise someone.

quengmel
quengmel  3 United Kingdom
10 Dec 2011 - 11:20 PM


Quote:
You see you going up and offering advice could well have been humiliating to him as he works as a professional photographer and there you were at his kids party in front of people telling him he was doing it wrong. Think of it from both sides and move on. Depending on the situation I could see how you may have been in the wrong.

Its life. advice is best given to someone who asks for it, otherwise leave alone. If a person is happy taking photo's leave well alone. If they were frustrated/having problems offer advice. Do you remember the Harry Enfield character who's catch phrase was

"you don't want to do it like that"

Like so many things, there is more than one way to take photo's no right or wrong.

Also if they were trying to catch a moment, your intervention may have meant the moment was lost...........

I have just given you advice, you may not have wanted it or even think it a bit arrogant of me.


Quote: It could well be he felt that you coming over to advise him was a bit arrogant, and it could well be for valid reasons he was using flash and you came across as offering advice without having the experience to back it.

Any advice and criticism i can take as long as it was done and said in a good manner and intention. I was not so clear bout what i said. It wasn't the celebrants' dad who told me but another guest in the party. I also didn't obviously interupt the dad whilst he was taking pictures and never even told him to use his camera this way or that. I just showed him that he can, with his dslr, increase the iso and shoot without pop up flash. I even put the camera back to auto mode when i returned the camera to him.
It was just this other guy that i think was kinda rude, is all.

strawman
strawman  1022004 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2011 - 11:25 PM

OK so the story is different from your original post conveyed it. The person taking the photo's was not the professional tog. the professional tog was another person. I think all the posters in this one thought it was the pro that was taking images.

Sorry without context it is hard to say, they may have been talking in general. I think you have not conveyed enough of this for us to decide. We were not there so cannot tell how the delivery was made. They may be correct, if the photographer in question is new to it they may be shooting in jpeg for example with auto white balance. In which case shooting under artificial light they may well be getting the wrong colours captured and may well have one hell of a problem in post editing. also if they do not understand shutter speed etc then running in auto with on-board flash may be best advice. Also they may have been trying to describe to you how to use bounced flash etc.

Life is too short to worry, they may have been correct or wrong. Best move on and enjoy the bits you like.

Last Modified By strawman at 10 Dec 2011 - 11:26 PM
quengmel
quengmel  3 United Kingdom
10 Dec 2011 - 11:29 PM


Quote: OK so the story is different from your original post conveyed it. The person taking the photo's was not the professional tog. the professional tog was another person. I think all the posters in this one thought it was the pro that was taking images.

Sorry without context it is hard to say, they may have been talking in general. I think you have not conveyed enough of this for us to decide. We were not there so cannot tell how the delivery was made. They may be correct, if the photographer in question is new to it they may be shooting in jpeg for example with auto white balance. In which case shooting under artificial light they may well be getting the wrong colours captured and may well have one hell of a problem in post editing. also if they do not understand shutter speed etc then running in auto with on-board flash may be best advice. Also they may have been trying to describe to you how to use bounced flash etc.

Life is too short to worry, they may have been correct or wrong. Best move on and enjoy the bits you like.

Well.... What else can we do

strawman
strawman  1022004 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2011 - 11:35 PM

Sorry I was not there to hear/see the reply. There are a set of technical reasons that may have made his reply sensible and correct or it could have been hot air. Sorry.

I went through a phase of attracting un-wanted advice, you know when you are out and about happily taking the photo doing a bit of experimentation and the like to learn and an adviser turns up. Some have been funny like the stoned hippy at Avebury Stone circle and we passed half an hour in banter till the effect of various chemicals moved his vision into another colour space from mine Smile I should never have shown him the Infra Red image on the back of the camera. The cloud movement in a red scene finished him.

Another turned up at twilight (they always turn up then) and his first salvo was you do not want to use those filters take real photo's (it was a graduated filter). Then he moved onto a lecture on the evils of digital and how he always takes slide as its more natural and he only wants to capture what he actually saw. So in an attempt at conversation I asked him what film, well it was brand X to make the blues more vivid, and I had to ask him is that natural. Well the air got frosty, so I showed him the photo with and without the filter and asked him which represented the scene his eyes were telling him was correct. He went a strange colour and left.

Last Modified By strawman at 10 Dec 2011 - 11:42 PM
quengmel
quengmel  3 United Kingdom
10 Dec 2011 - 11:51 PM


Quote: Sorry I was not there to hear/see the reply. There are a set of technical reasons that may have made his reply sensible and correct or it could have been hot air. Sorry.

I went through a phase of attracting un-wanted advice, you know when you are out and about happily taking the photo doing a bit of experimentation and the like to learn and an adviser turns up. Some have been funny like the stoned hippy at Avebury Stone circle and we passed half an hour in banter till the effect of various chemicals moved his vision into another colour space from mine Smile I should never have shown him the Infra Red image on the back of the camera. The cloud movement in a red scene finished him.

Another turned up at twilight (they always turn up then) and his first salvo was you do not want to use those filters take real photo's (it was a graduated filter). Then he moved onto a lecture on the evils of digital and how he always takes slide as its more natural and he only wants to capture what he actually saw. So in an attempt at conversation I asked him what film, well it was brand X to make the blues more vivid, and I had to ask him is that natural. Well the air got frosty, so I showed him the photo with and without the filter and asked him which represented the scene his eyes were telling him was correct. He went a strange colour and left.

Hahhaa.....
See, i have been adviced and criticized a few times for my photos, some were downright nasty but a lot were god constructive criticism, which i welcome whole heartedly. But when somebody tells it like "you're never gonna be good in photography kinda thing" , well that's kinda his tone that's why i felt discouraged and insulted as well.
Anyway, tnx fr the replys. Made me feel a little bit better.

strawman
strawman  1022004 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2011 - 11:59 PM

Ah someone telling you
Quote: you're never gonna be good in photography kinda thing

is just a pratt Smile

They turn up in all walks of life.

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