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Do they realise

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tomcat
tomcat e2 Member 85835 forum poststomcat vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2013 - 11:01 PM

obviously not that no one gives a damn when they get up to antics like this

Fortunately no harm was done, but it could easily have been so different

If they have a grievance, take a few short breaths and think about how their current plight came about, rather than potentially destroying part of our heritage.

Lack of grey matter comes to mind

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Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman  114484 forum posts England36 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2013 - 11:21 PM

Hmmmm.......Fathers4Justice, you'd think they want to set their children an example, it's no wonder some of them are denied access!

MichaelMelb_AU
29 Jun 2013 - 3:14 AM

When something degrades - it stinks. The family institution, the only right foundation to civilized human society has degraded considerably - why wonder there are quite a few stinks around? Especially disgusting it gets when somebody tries to outstink the others to get more attention... A wise man said - you can catch more flies with honey Sad

ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jun 2013 - 9:29 AM

try doing something good, you will get noticed for it.
Do something like this and all you get is disgust are they that low that they want us al to see them in that way, clearly the answer is yes.

I believe reporting this kind of crime to the public just fuels there ego, it's a case of oh look I got in the paper that's me that is, you know the type of attitude.
So in my mind don't report such crimes to fuel the criminals ego, most are attention seekers, that is obvious, so why give them the glory of fame, never will understand the sense in this type of journalism.

Last Modified By ianrobinson at 29 Jun 2013 - 9:38 AM
Big Bri
Big Bri  1315547 forum posts England
29 Jun 2013 - 9:53 AM

I can understand some of the Fathers4Justice arguments, as the law in this country does seem to be unfairly biased in the favour of mothers when a family splits up.

But a stunt like this certainly wouldn't do anything get me on their side...

puertouk
puertouk  21052 forum posts United Kingdom17 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jun 2013 - 10:15 AM

Maybe if you had kids and were stopped from seeing them, you may well see their side of things. They are desperate to see their children who they love so much. But, some bitter and twisted mothers will use whatever means they have to get back at their husbands. These men are not violent and would never hurt their children, but when a mother goes to court over the kids, some will ask the judge that the father should not be allowed to see their father and 9 out of 10 times, the judge will back the mother. I have seen stories on TV about this, fathers who pay their maintenance on time, are great fathers who are forbidden to see their own kids because of the mother.

I do not agree that they should damage such things as priceless art, but these people are desperate for their plight to be seen in public and would would care or take notice if they had stuck a picture on a wall in the street? They are NOT criminals, as Ian Robinson states, they are normal parents who want to see their kids and share in their lives.

lemmy
lemmy  71762 forum posts United Kingdom
29 Jun 2013 - 10:20 AM


Quote: A wise man said - you can catch more flies with honey Sad

You kill a lot more with a spray, though.

The fact that this is being discussed here means the fathers group have succeeded. The same tactics were used by some of the suffragettes and now women have the vote. Often, long term, these tactics work.

Not reporting things like this was tried in the early 70s in cooperation with the police with regard to soccer thuggism. It was given up because it simply encouraged the thugs to up the ante until what they did had to be reported

The outrage that people express is exactly what the groups want. Anyone who has read Joseph Conrad's The Secret Agent will understand the terrorist mind very well. It is not like yours or mine, it wants outrage and people red faced with anger. 'Is there nothing these people wouldn't do to further their aims?' we scream......and their reaction is, no we will do anything. They don't want you to like them, they just want what they feel (and sometimes is) is justice.

It worked for the Mau-Mau, it worked for the suffragettes, it worked for the IRA , they reason, so why wouldn't it work for us?

dcash29
dcash29  81887 forum posts England
29 Jun 2013 - 10:25 AM


Quote: Lack of grey matter comes to mind

Although totally disagreeing with these actions, some of these men seem desperate and have no where to turn.

What needs to be taken into consideration is if it were a woman in this situation, everyone would shout sexism and change would come.

pluffy
pluffy  7125 forum posts United Kingdom
29 Jun 2013 - 3:02 PM


Quote: Maybe if you had kids and were stopped from seeing them, you may well see their side of things. They are desperate to see their children who they love so much. But, some bitter and twisted mothers will use whatever means they have to get back at their husbands. These men are not violent and would never hurt their children, but when a mother goes to court over the kids, some will ask the judge that the father should not be allowed to see their father and 9 out of 10 times, the judge will back the mother. I have seen stories on TV about this, fathers who pay their maintenance on time, are great fathers who are forbidden to see their own kids because of the mother.

I do not agree that they should damage such things as priceless art, but these people are desperate for their plight to be seen in public and would would care or take notice if they had stuck a picture on a wall in the street? They are NOT criminals, as Ian Robinson states, they are normal parents who want to see their kids and share in their lives.

I agree with you completely. My son is going through a divorce and his wife stops him seeing his daughter by any means she can, this is even though he has agreed dates set by the courts. His wife gets Legal aid whilst he has to pay Solicitors 125 per hour and extra costs to go back to court and when he does go back everything his wife say's is taken as the truth, no matter that he has evidence to disprove it.

The law should be equal for both parents but it isn't and unfortunately some fathers are driven to desperate means to highlight the injustices, some have even been forced into suicide.

I just hope that no one on here has to suffer like my son has.

lemmy
lemmy  71762 forum posts United Kingdom
29 Jun 2013 - 3:51 PM

The problem for the court is, they grant access but the mother does not comply. What do they do? Jail the mother? Impose large fines? Any punishment serves to punish the child rather than the mother.

The law is a very blunt instrument where personal relationships are concerned and I suppose that is the heart of this problem. Even the courts are at a loss sometimes.

In a case I know of personally, the father left the mother for another woman. He just upped and left and made no provision for maintenance of the child. The court imposed a maintence order because he refused to pay a regular amount. He was also granted access. The mothers view is that he didn't think of his daughter when he summarily left, he refused to pay towards her upbringing until forced to by the court. Now he wants to see her. She feels that he may have a legal right but he doesn't have a moral one and she makes it has hard as possible for him.

Big Bri
Big Bri  1315547 forum posts England
29 Jun 2013 - 5:53 PM


Quote: They are NOT criminals, as Ian Robinson states

Well, if they damage artworks they are... whatever reason has driven them to do it....

Big Bri
Big Bri  1315547 forum posts England
29 Jun 2013 - 7:14 PM

There you go

MichaelMelb_AU
29 Jun 2013 - 11:25 PM


Quote: The problem for the court is, they grant access but the mother does not comply. What do they do? Jail the mother? Impose large fines? Any punishment serves to punish the child rather than the mother.

The law is a very blunt instrument where personal relationships are concerned and I suppose that is the heart of this problem. Even the courts are at a loss sometimes.

...

Law is a very effective instrument if used properly. Access to the child may be enforced, and ultimately the mother's right to keep the child may be challenged. But it needs some will and brainpower to do that - much easier to draw public attention to something like acts of vandalism hoping that this helps in the concrete situation created by the concrete person. In my view this may only help this person to loosing some money and access to their child as well. This hits the child too, but I strongly suspect that we are talking not love, but revenge here. This is illogical - we want no public interference in our private matters but complain on public indifference when wreck the chaos ourselves.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314811 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jun 2013 - 11:44 PM

At least its not the animal right`s looney`s, I once got attacked by a bunch of woman for buying a pint of maggots Smile Smile

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73802 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jun 2013 - 11:53 PM


Quote: The fact that this is being discussed here means the fathers group have succeeded. The same tactics were used by some of the suffragettes and now women have the vote.

It wasn't really the shock tactics of the suffragettes that got the vote, it was the effort the women did for the war effort in WW1 doing "men's jobs" that really made the difference. Positive rather than negative action.

Making yourself look a complete prat is not the way to win a argument.

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