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MichaelMelb_AU
30 Jun 2013 - 12:00 AM


Quote: At least its not the animal right`s looney`s, I once got attacked by a bunch of woman for buying a pint of maggots Smile Smile

You should've launched a counterattack saying you gonna use them to feed wild fish suffering consequences of ecological disbalance SmileSmileSmile

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30 Jun 2013 - 12:00 AM

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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314948 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2013 - 2:30 AM

The point they were putting across was that fishing was cruel, yet if it was`nt for anglers a lot of the fish would have been wiped out due to disease Smile

MichaelMelb_AU
30 Jun 2013 - 4:23 AM


Quote: The point they were putting across was that fishing was cruel, yet if it was`nt for anglers a lot of the fish would have been wiped out due to disease Smile

I wonder if they were wearing some wooden clogs and home-knit clothes? Or shoes from cow skin and clothes made of oil derived synthetics that killed more fish in process of making them that the whole army of anglers ever could? The point is - all those protesters do not wish to bother themselves with doing anything of substance , but rather enjoy making annoyance for "noble" reasons. To be taken seriously - they better start with cleaning the mess left by themselves.
And I would be perfectly happy to take them serious on that.

pluffy
pluffy  7125 forum posts United Kingdom
30 Jun 2013 - 10:13 AM


Quote: The problem for the court is, they grant access but the mother does not comply. What do they do? Jail the mother? Impose large fines? Any punishment serves to punish the child rather than the mother.

The law is a very blunt instrument where personal relationships are concerned and I suppose that is the heart of this problem. Even the courts are at a loss sometimes.

...
Law is a very effective instrument if used properly. Access to the child may be enforced, and ultimately the mother's right to keep the child may be challenged. But it needs some will and brainpower to do that - much easier to draw public attention to something like acts of vandalism hoping that this helps in the concrete situation created by the concrete person. In my view this may only help this person to loosing some money and access to their child as well. This hits the child too, but I strongly suspect that we are talking not love, but revenge here. This is illogical - we want no public interference in our private matters but complain on public indifference when wreck the chaos ourselves.

Is it? Perhaps in Australia it is, but in the UK I am afraid that all the rights belong to the woman and the men struggle to be heard unless Social Services have been bought into the case or you have vast amounts of money to hire top lawyers.

collywobles
30 Jun 2013 - 3:39 PM

In reality men ask and sometimes deserve the problems that arise out of dysfunctional marriages. In almost every case a man/father/husband just wants to walk away from the problem (just watch junk TV) , thus avoiding paying maintenance towards the upbringing by the ex/wife of the partnership and any children in that marriage. Any issues that arise to protect the woman and the child arise from this.

Agreed though that there are some fathers who do wish to continue to be in and support the lives of the offspring and should be allowed to do so..

lemmy
lemmy  71770 forum posts United Kingdom
30 Jun 2013 - 4:15 PM


Quote: Making yourself look a complete prat is not the way to win a argument.

In the real world violence often wins. I belive we are abouyt to negotiate with the Taliban, with whome 'we shall never negotiate. We negotiated with the IRA 'with whom we will never talk'.

The suffragettes, as with everything else, there is no one reason they eventually succeeded but the matter was talked about and very much on the agenda because of their actions. The war sealed that probably but even today the suffragettes and their cause are know and discussed (as here).


Quote: I once got attacked by a bunch of woman for buying a pint of maggots

You can't win. I once got attacked by a bunch of maggots for buying a woman. Wink

pluffy
pluffy  7125 forum posts United Kingdom
30 Jun 2013 - 4:35 PM


Quote: In reality men ask and sometimes deserve the problems that arise out of dysfunctional marriages. In almost every case a man/father/husband just wants to walk away from the problem (just watch junk TV) , thus avoiding paying maintenance towards the upbringing by the ex/wife of the partnership and any children in that marriage. Any issues that arise to protect the woman and the child arise from this.

Agreed though that there are some fathers who do wish to continue to be in and support the lives of the offspring and should be allowed to do so..

I have to say I have heard some rubbish in my time but yours is about the most puerile junk I have heard. Why do you say men deserve it and not women, after all a large number of breakdowns are caused by women and still they seem to have all the rights.

I assume that you or anyone you know have never been in this position, when you have you might be mightily surprised at how the law is skewed towards women, even when the man is the innocent party.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314948 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2013 - 4:57 PM


Quote: In reality men ask and sometimes deserve the problems that arise out of dysfunctional marriages. In almost every case a man/father/husband just wants to walk away from the problem (just watch junk TV) , thus avoiding paying maintenance towards the upbringing by the ex/wife of the partnership and any children in that marriage. Any issues that arise to protect the woman and the child arise from this.

Agreed though that there are some fathers who do wish to continue to be in and support the lives of the offspring and should be allowed to do so..

I should imagine its 6 of one and half dozen the other in the majority of cases.

lemmy
lemmy  71770 forum posts United Kingdom
30 Jun 2013 - 5:13 PM


Quote: have to say I have heard some rubbish in my time but yours is about the most puerile junk I have heard

I think you will find on re-reading that the statement contains 'sometimes' and 'there are some fathers who do wish' etc.

In discussions like this there is always someone who descends into personal abuse rather than reasoned argument but usually even they have read the post properly.

Time to leave......

chris.maddock
30 Jun 2013 - 5:23 PM


Quote: have to say I have heard some rubbish in my time but yours is about the most puerile junk I have heard

I think you will find on re-reading that the statement contains 'sometimes'

Nope, even taking the "sometimes" into account the entire first paragraph of that post is ridiculously biased cobblers.
It implies that men always ask for the problems and only sometimes deserve them, which is far from the truth.

Last Modified By chris.maddock at 30 Jun 2013 - 5:28 PM
pluffy
pluffy  7125 forum posts United Kingdom
30 Jun 2013 - 7:03 PM


Quote: have to say I have heard some rubbish in my time but yours is about the most puerile junk I have heard

I think you will find on re-reading that the statement contains 'sometimes' and 'there are some fathers who do wish' etc.

In discussions like this there is always someone who descends into personal abuse rather than reasoned argument but usually even they have read the post properly.

Time to leave......

I think on re-reading you will see that Collywobles say's "In almost every case a man/father/husband just wants to walk away from the problem (just watch junk TV) , thus avoiding paying maintenance towards the upbringing by the ex/wife of the partnership and any children in that marriage".

If that isn't actually denigrating the majority I don't know what is. Just for the record my son works 70 hours per week to pay a joint mortgage which she walked away from plus joint loan to pay her credit card bill, 140 maintenance for one child and so far 10,000 in Solicitors and court fees, with I might add no end in sight as she appeals every court decision because she can afford to on Legal Aid. I am sure my son would love to have time to watch junk TV but he just doesn't have time.

pluffy
pluffy  7125 forum posts United Kingdom
30 Jun 2013 - 7:10 PM


Quote: have to say I have heard some rubbish in my time but yours is about the most puerile junk I have heard

I think you will find on re-reading that the statement contains 'sometimes'

Nope, even taking the "sometimes" into account the entire first paragraph of that post is ridiculously biased cobblers.
It implies that men always ask for the problems and only sometimes deserve them, which is far from the truth.

Thanks Chris for a sensible and reasoned comment, I despair of some of the people on this site who can brand one half of the population as at fault for anything and everything.

Following Collywobles logic would it be fair to say that as some women are prostitutes then it must follow that the majority of women must be prostitutes? That would of course be ridiculous but there again Collywobles set the parameters.

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
30 Jun 2013 - 8:42 PM

When couples totally **** it up when it comes to separation, the law is a blunt instrument that rarely delivers a result the both parties are happy with. I would certainly not like to deal with bitter parents who are both trying to paint each other in the worst light possible.

Some people do manage to put their children first and those are the ones who manage to split up without ending up hating each other, unfortunately too many use there children as pawns in order to hurt their former partners.

MichaelMelb_AU
30 Jun 2013 - 9:17 PM


Quote: ... the UK I am afraid that all the rights belong to the woman and the men struggle to be heard unless Social Services have been bought into the case or you have vast amounts of money to hire top lawyers.

I would find speaking to Social Services more productive than vandalizing masterpieces. May not help, but won't do some guaranteed damage (unless the parent has negative record with them - then it's a personal problem, not social one).

Last Modified By MichaelMelb_AU at 30 Jun 2013 - 9:18 PM
cantona43
cantona43 e2 Member 8863 forum postscantona43 vcard England4 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2013 - 10:29 PM

no matter what the grievance or protest is about talk to the right people, vandalism and acts of violence do not sort out the problem

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