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many people on this site have spent a lot of their valuable time telling me what they think of my photography. for that i am greatful!
to some, giving genuine feedback just comes naturally, but i also like to think that i've set it up over the last few months so that people know what kind of thing i'm looking for. i've done the same for people. i've taken their pictures into my software and played around with them and made suggestions, and emailed my versions.
i don't claim to never get defensive. i've been known to have crises and pouting fits in the past. i'm probably as insecure as the "next guy", but i've always invited people to be really honest, and that was work in itself. i don't expect everyone to be comfortable enough to be totally honest, and anyway, there is no such thing as totally honest, most feedback is just getting an impression of a work and conveying that.
i try to give back to the community whenever i can and i find that we all have different needs. some of us have really thick skin. then i can say it as i see it. some are more sensitive, but want to learn, so i have to be gentle (i really like it when people are gentle with me). some people are here to show off their work, i assume that because they hardly ever post comments or replies to comments, they've posted their website and just need a broader showcase. mostly i don't bother saying anything to them, i just click when i like something. some people like the social aspect, not sure if feedback is desired at all, so i comment on something nice if i like it. some people go for the sheer number of hearts. they make only nice comments, hardly ever bring up a possible improvement. that's cool too. we have to get what we need.
i think it is my responsibility as a member of anything to know what people need and to try to deliver. that can only happen through communication.
what kind of feedback do you need?
It's an interesting question! When I first read your post here I felt maybe this is taking it all too seriously, but on second thoughts I might be being a bit too harsh. So I am thinking aloud here and maybe being the devils advocate. From my own point of view I enjoy EZ because it gives me an opportunity to gain inspiration, ideas and to learn from other peoples work and when the mood takes me, to tell someone if I like their photos. When I post my own shots it is always nice when I get feedback for it and I get a buzz if I get more than 1 heart!
This is the second thread I have read recently which talks about how feedback (or lack of)on our photos makes us feel badly. Surely this is just one forum for sharing and gaining feedback on our work. It is not the b'all and end'all of it. Can't we just do it without worrying too much about the finer details? Life's too short.
It's always good to get positive feedback, and I welcome any suggestions for improvements to my shots. I will occasionally offer suggestions to others as to how I would have taken or presented the photo, but I don't feel I'm qualified to offer any serious technical advice! I mean, me offering Lucie advice on lighting a portrait would be like teaching my Granny to suck eggs!
I think all feedback is good feedback because at least it means that someone has considered your photo worthy of having a closer look at. Unless they just say "crap pic" or whatever! That kind of remark is a waste of everyone's time and just causes bad feeling. Even if it is a crap pic (not that I have seen many on here, apart from the worst photo taken with the worst camera comp.) it is not fair to say so unless you give a good reason for your opinion.
Hi, I would never consider giving negative feedback. There is, IMO, no justification to give a bad critique, when the person may be asking for advise on how to do better work. At least they have tried.
Though I have been taking photos for close on 50 years, I find I can still learn something, even if it appears to be a poor shot. It makes me look at my own work in a more critical way, to see if I may have made the same mistake, if so can I rectify it.
I view all the ones I can, and like a lot of people open up the posters portfolio for a better look at their work. Usually give a comment on something there. Yes it is nice to get clicks and comments. It does give a nice feeling that your work has been appreciated, even if by only one person.
I have looked at all your portfolios and am very impressed by the quality of work you all have produced. Keep up the good work.
Regards.
Ken
well, now i feel silly. do i take it too seriously? i think i have to take it a bit seriously, because photography is really important to me, and i want to do what i can to evoke real feedback from people, people who care and who are good judges of my work only because they have that similar interest.
isn't it good to know who takes it seriously, and who doesn't? isn't that just what i was talking about? individual preference.
Lucie,
If something is really important to you it is not silly, if you take it seriously.
It gives a focal point to our existance, belief in ourselves that we do care and most importantly, I think a reason to live.
Producing objects of beauty, photos included, is one way of giving back to life some of the things we take out of it. To appreciate someone elses work is all part of this. Being appreciated for what we do is also very important.
Regards.
Ken
I joined this site for the very reasons that I still use it, to learn. I had absolutely no experience of any type of photography when I first signed on here. I use the forums (browser not really a joiner there), the gallery and the technique section to pull together information I may need in a certain area.
Every single comment on my pics has helped me, but especially those where people have taken the time to explain where the pic could be improved technically, and these are the comments that I hope will continue.
Having said that "nice pic" means that, something about that pic has meant someone has taken the trouble to open the thumbnail and comment, and sometimes that's all anyone needs to say.
As has been said in other forums there are so many pics uploaded that people have had to acquire habits in giving their comments. (does that make sense?)
I do not feel I am at the stage to seriously critique another's work. As I said when I started I am still learning, this site, the comments and the hearts are a very welcome bonus and let's not forget this is all FREE! Thank you all x.
yes, it's definitely that. free. and people are extremely helpful. thank you ken, for saying such a nice thing. i think i might be feeling a little fragile today.
paula, i guess what i'm saying in a roundabout way, is that it would be helpful to tell the people who want feedback from the people who don't want feedback. so often i've mentioned a possible improvement to someone's picture, and been very careful to encase it in praise, and then wondered whether it would be taken as helpful or not.
i don't feel a particular need to critique people's pictures. i'm just as happy writing nice pic, but i think it's more valuable to share an opinion if i have one.
someone in another forum mentioned having two galleries. one for people who want feedback and one for people who want to showcase their work. i think that same forum suggested a way of uploading pictures that don't go through the gallery at all! i think that is a fabulous idea as well.
since server space is not the issue, one could upload a whole series and send the key photo into whichever gallery. that way it doesn't clog the browsing process and people can choose whether or not to visit the person's portfolio to see the whole series.
i've thought about this a lot lately. and really like the idea. what does everyone else think? i might suggest it to pete.
I must admit, I'm happy to receive feedback of any kind. It's not all about 'clicks' or ECs, and I wouldn't like to think people only comment to say 'Nice shot' or something similar, welcome though that is.
I know most of my photos can probably be improved, (many of them have a lot of room for improvement!) and looking at some EPZ members' pictures gives me an excellent incentive to improve - there are some fantastic shots to be seen - but the only way I'll get there is by learning, and as a result, improving. Comments and advice from others goes along way to helping with that. And I agree with Malcolm, most of us aren't going to get the expert advice we need from friends and family.
I'm not sure if splitting submissions into 'showcase' and 'feedback' is necessarily the best way to go, but at the least, maybe people could say in the description whether or not they want feedback, e.g., just something like, "What do you think?" or, "Comments welcome". Just a thought.
Doug
Lucie, Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel silly. I do realise that it is important to take our photography seriously for those of us for whom it is, or is becoming a big part of our lives. I admire your desire to be so constructive for other people and be part of the community. I think my problem is that I am one of those people who finds it hard to relate so closely to a web community in such a personal way. There is always a distance for me with computers and the internet that is difficult to overcome. So once again, apologies if I was a little harsh in my response. Shame on me for being so impersonal.
Jenny
i think, asking for feedback is a way to go. it certainly worked for me. but not everyone wants to be that direct. so just because you're not asking doesn't mean you don't want it.
and what about the people who really don't care for it. they're not going to say, "i don't want feedback, i just want to show you my great stuff. i'll take praise if you're giving it." which is cool, but if i don't know this i could waste precious time, that could be better spent critiquing someone else's work.
that's why the two galleries. really not sure if that is at all possible to implement, of course.
what about the idea of uploading maybe three pics a day, but choose only one to go to a gallery? any opinions?
jenny, no big deal. i was really feeling a little too sensitive this morning. i think it's whatever you want it to be. for me it's been extrememly significant because of the immense amount of useful feedback i've had. so i try to give back. i try not to get too sucked into a virtual community, but human nature is to get attached. well, i should say, my nature. i can't help it.
no offense taken, in any case! thanks for responding. - lu
Just caught this thread. Personally i would prefer honest straight forward feedback.
In fact I would like people to tell me why they don't like my photos and what reasons they have for saying so, that sort of feedback is an invaluable learning tool. Of course it is nice to get nice comments too but again, I'd like to know why someone likes a photo.
If it's done correctly, all feedback can be positive regardless of whether the critic likes or dislikes the photo. I often suggest where I think improvements can be made on photos where I see that it looks good but not quite there but it's important to remember that it's only my opinion and not absolute.
In fact this thread has given me a little idea for my web site. One picture a week could be uploaded and honest critiques will be welcomed over the course of a week by those brave enough to submit their picture. I'd open a special category on my forum to do this if anyone is interested in taking part.
It will be stipulated that comments have to include reasons why the picture works and why it doesn't too.
I think this is part of what Lucie is saying though - not everyone is looking for a critique, or at least, not on every photo they submit. Hence the idea of splitting submissions into those to be critiqued and those just for showcase.
I haven't been a member here for long, but I get the impression that comments are more often of the "this is good" type, with a few of the "this is good, but have you considered this to improve it?". I've yet to see somebody say anything genuinely negative. In that sense, feedback from EPZ members is far removed from the kind of thing you can see in Photography Monthly's 'Judgement' feature!
Perhaps with the sheer volume of photos being submitted we do need some way to identify those people who want a genuine critique of their work. Lucie has suggested splitting submissions. Another possibility might be a check box on the submission page which flags those photos for which a critique is wanted?
Doug
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