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Doing the honourable thing....

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gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102255 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
11 Oct 2011 - 8:26 PM


Quote: As well as Mandelsson and his cronies, think Blair and Ecclestone. And the significant criticisms Cherie Blair has received as getting her shout in the trough even though she was only the PM's wife.


Absolutely! But of course, Blair and New Labour were Tories disguised as Labour. Wink

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11 Oct 2011 - 8:26 PM

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mikehit
mikehit  46158 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
12 Oct 2011 - 12:02 AM

Ah! The tired old defence put up by Labour supporters - when you point out one of theirs is just as bad as everyone else, claim they weren't one of yours in the first place Wink Even though, of course, before he realised the best way to power was to become everyone's bestest freind he was pretty much a Marxist.

jondf
jondf  72474 forum posts
12 Oct 2011 - 12:21 AM


Quote: Readers seem to have forgotten that Dr Fox is a politician!

Well you're not wrong there but times have changed. The MP's expenses scandal, News International, Coulson, Laws et al have all served to create a climate of anxiety in which politicians must think really hard about their behaviour. This makes Fox look at best incompetent and at worst clandestine which brings us back to my earlier point about who the Tories think they are.

mikehit
mikehit  46158 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
12 Oct 2011 - 12:58 AM

I agree completely with you Jondf until "... which brings...". Are you saying that in the latter days of the Labour government there were no Labour politicians with dodgy connections. And there are none now trading on their status as MPs?
Cash for questions. Cash for honours. Secret loans. Dodgy donations in return for top jobs. Who do these Labour politicians think they are? Standing there, claiming they are acting honourably for the common man yet sticking their snout in the trough. Tch!

thewilliam
12 Oct 2011 - 9:42 AM

Were the politicians of ancient Rome or classical Athens any different?

Last Modified By thewilliam at 12 Oct 2011 - 9:42 AM
mikehit
mikehit  46158 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
12 Oct 2011 - 9:51 AM

If you assume human nature is the same as ever, then I would say 'no'. Assuming you do not limit the discussion to democracies... Then it all becomes a question of degrees.

When the issue of cash for questions was at its height I heard several interviews with politicians and journalists across Europe, including Germany, France, Greece and others and they could not believe the stink that was being created about what they saw as such a trivial matter. And the fact it was considered corruption serious enough to nearly bring down a government was beyond their comprehension.
I am not saying that the MPs should get away with what they were/are doing, just that maybe with the rabid reactions of the press we are losing a bit of perspective on this.

jondf
jondf  72474 forum posts
12 Oct 2011 - 9:57 AM


Quote: I agree completely with you Jondf until "... which brings..."

But if I were to agree with you, we'd both be wrong Tongue

The point is that despite all the recent controversy - much of which you and I mention above - you'd think that right now someone in Mr Fox's position would have erred on the side of caution before allowing the Wheeting situation to develop in the way it has.

And the questions that still have to be answered are - did the 'Adviser to Mr Fox' receive payment in any way? Did he use his position to conduct and influence business proceedings? Why was such a person allowed unvetted into high-level meetings with foreign dignitaries?

Bridgelayer
13 Oct 2011 - 11:59 AM

Further to that, who paid his fares for all these little jaunts, and any others undisclosed?

mikehit
mikehit  46158 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
13 Oct 2011 - 2:02 PM

If it wasn't Liam Fox, would it matter?

JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53534 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
13 Oct 2011 - 2:27 PM

Whilst his private life should be private, if he is being manulipuated by friendship/sex or money then he should do the honourable thing and step down as now we can't trust his judgement when in such a high profile position.
He seems to be evasively answering all questions an this inspires no trust at all. Its better to stand true to yourself and be less childish about providing straight answers.
When politicians just attract leeches looking for an angle and a kick back you know they have stopped representing the electorate as their prime concern.

mikehit
mikehit  46158 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
13 Oct 2011 - 9:07 PM

Yeah. It's amazing how many times it is not the action that causes a resignation, but the obfuscation and/or cover up they do afterwards that brings them down. It is amazing they never learn.

jondf
jondf  72474 forum posts
14 Oct 2011 - 12:03 PM


Quote: It is amazing they never learn

Quite. As I say, he's either incompetent or arrogant........perhaps both?

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139392 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
14 Oct 2011 - 12:07 PM

The details are less important than questions over his judgement. Does it cast doubt on his competence as a government minister responsible for defence and an enormous budget?

If the answer is yes, then Fox must go.......... pronto.

milly123
milly123  475 forum posts United Kingdom
14 Oct 2011 - 1:27 PM

To me, this seems typical of the majority of politicians of all parties. If this hadn't been discovered, Fox, in a few years time, would have faded away from the limelight and taken up his role as a Director of his 'friend's' defence related company. This company would/will be very successful due to all the work being done now on the back of us, the good old gullible tax payer. Who knows what compromises have been made in regard to defence contracts etc. If the Israel's are in involved, you know there is a very good chance that it will be very dodgy and, a lot of money to made............

milly

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139392 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
14 Oct 2011 - 4:55 PM

He's gone.

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