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Don't Prove...Improve


StrayCat e2
10 15.5k 2 Canada
7 Dec 2012 10:08PM
Those are basically the words Long time National Geographic Photojournalist Bruce Dale said to Dewitt Jones many years ago when he took him under his wing at the beginning of Dewitt's destinguished career with NG. So many countless hours are spent trying to prove ourselves to others, rather than spend those hours improving our technique, and sharpening our eyes.

Both amateurs and pros sometimes refuse to share technique that makes their photography special, rather than their vision. Dewitt says; "Folks, don't go there. You get better a lot faster by focusing on improving, not proving. You learn more by sharing than by hoarding."

Head of photography at National Geographic Bob Gilke hired Jones years ago, and this is what he said to him: "Look, if you work here, you're part of a team of photographers that are the best in the world. I believe that, and you'd better believe that, too.You don't have to prove yourself, not to me, or to the other photographers. What I do demand that you do, is improve yourself. Every day, strive to be a better photographer, and a better visual storyteller. And everything you learn, share it openly with the other photographers here at NG. Improve and share; If you do that, you'll do fine. If not, you won't work here long."

My inspiration for this thread was the one going on regarding giving information on gallery pics.

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widtink e2
2 406 2 Scotland
8 Dec 2012 8:16AM
Aye totally agree another point is you can tell the real pros on here because they don't shoe their exif data alot of the timeWink

Rod
widtink e2
2 406 2 Scotland
8 Dec 2012 8:16AM
shoe no share lol
franken e2
12 3.3k 4 Wales
8 Dec 2012 9:30AM

Quote:Aye totally agree another point is you can tell the real pros on here because they don't shoe their exif data alot of the timeWink

Rod



Looking at Exif data on images can be useful but its far from essential really. Only the photographer can compose the image and decide on the exact time to press the shutter.

Some of the worlds greatest photographers got by really well without Exif data being available.

Exif data can be changed on uploads of images to EPZ. I looked at the data of a bird upload recently and the photographer managed to take the shot on the 19th November 2013!

Ken
p12owe e2
2 101 2 United Kingdom
8 Dec 2012 9:38AM
I couldn't agree more with this thread, maybe the voting brings out the competition in people and stops them wanting to share. Since joining a few days ago I have contacted one or two people, politely asking about particular techniques they have used. I could accept a "get lost", or "I haven't got time right now" but as yet have not received a single acknowledgement Sad

Just one small point on Exif Data.. Some of my own images contain several layers, exposures and composites.
To show exif data on these would be meaningless, but could even be construed as misleading.... just a thoughtSmile

Peter
franken e2
12 3.3k 4 Wales
8 Dec 2012 9:56AM

Quote:I couldn't agree more with this thread, maybe the voting brings out the competition in people and stops them wanting to share. Since joining a few days ago I have contacted one or two people, politely asking about particular techniques they have used. I could accept a "get lost", or "I haven't got time right now" but as yet have not received a single ack


"I've been approached and asked a few times as to how i did this or that and I do tend to give the answer.

Human nature being what it is some people may decline to offer help and guidance as they may have spent a great deal of time and effort in order to achieve the level of work that they have and may consider that others should do the same?

Ken
p12owe e2
2 101 2 United Kingdom
8 Dec 2012 11:11AM

Quote:"I've been approached and asked a few times as to how i did this or that and I do tend to give the answer.
Human nature being what it is some people may decline to offer help and guidance as they may have spent a great deal of time and effort in order to achieve the level of work that they have and may consider that others should do the same?

Ken


I think we can all appreciate that sentiment, though equally, many techniques and effects are down to a particular plugin that someone has been generously told about, but would then prefer to keep to themselves.
Surely, as the original post implies, In a community, should we not lean more towards improving and sharing? Anyway my gripe is really with those who do not reply at all.
arhb e2
7 2.5k 68 United Kingdom
8 Dec 2012 4:19PM
This subject is a bit dependent on the technique or process in question.
I've invested a fair amount of time and money into lighting workshops or retouch technique dvd's,
and I dont think I should feel obliged to share this information for nothing.

That said, if I find a technique video on youtoube, which after trying, if think is worth sharing, I would do so.
Same with a magazine tutorial.

I am however, always trying to improve.
StrayCat e2
10 15.5k 2 Canada
8 Dec 2012 7:54PM
Imo, the EXIF data is most useful to the person who took the shot. I review mine frequently.

I think the gist of the article from which I got the idea for this post was more about one sharing techniques and ideas that would help improve anyone's photography, rather than keeping it a big classified secret with the intent of gaining an advantage over other togs.
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
8 Dec 2012 8:07PM
i give all my secrets away each week in workshops.... around leeds and yorkshire Wink
8 Dec 2012 8:09PM
Frankly im confused as to where the bloody EXIF data is i know what it is what it does etc but cant seem to find it lol or set it . iv got a Nikon d3100 and maybe im a bit slow
ade_mcfade e2
10 15.1k 216 England
8 Dec 2012 8:12PM
if you use free viewer IrfanView, you can access all the info by pressing "I" - then the exif is available by pressing "E"
lawbert e2
7 1.8k 15 England
8 Dec 2012 8:38PM

Quote:I couldn't agree more with this thread, maybe the voting brings out the competition in people and stops them wanting to share. Since joining a few days ago I have contacted one or two people, politely asking about particular techniques they have used. I could accept a "get lost", or "I haven't got time right now" but as yet have not received a single acknowledgement Sad

Just one small point on Exif Data.. Some of my own images contain several layers, exposures and composites.
To show exif data on these would be meaningless, but could even be construed as misleading.... just a thoughtSmile

Peter



I personally dont think the voting system brings out competition in the gallery, neither does having the exif mean that much...the exif only shows what the camera recorded not how the shot was set by the photographer and subsequent post processing.

As for helping people the its down to the individual as to how they view thier photography...if its a business then they arent going to share to much...even a hobbyist wont share to much as they have put huge amounts of time into an image are rightly proud of it.

I helped a chap on printing who had pm'd me and it took me a good 30 mins to think out the workflow and pass on the information and I didnt even get a Cheers Mate!!

I do believe the site itself has the answer to most photographic and technique issues via the critique gallery....Its helped me no end and people are so happy to helpSmileWink
tomcat e2
9 6.2k 15 United Kingdom
8 Dec 2012 9:58PM

Quote:I looked at the data of a bird upload recently and the photographer managed to take the shot on the 19th November 2013!

Ken



There has been an issue, where the date/time in the EXIF data, has not been uploading correctly

Sorted now thoughWink
strokebloke e2
6 481 16 England
8 Dec 2012 10:32PM
And yet several of those who offer critique in that gallery, will often complain bitterly to the OP if the EXIF data is not included: whilst the consensus here, is that it is more important to the OP.
I must admit to being unsure, at times, just why the EXIF data is so vitally important to critiquers.

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