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Quote: but there is enough evidence going back to 1913 which demonstrates the whole cycle very well.
there are plenty of theories that describe Boom & Bust cycles but none that can explain or predict it consistently. Read the literature and you will find there is significant disagreement on how to do this and which economic school of thought is correct (which should in itself tell us something about economics!).
I don't intend to produce lists of references,(but will be happy to do so if you insist! 
) )
I favour Kondratiev and Schumpeter on economic theory, and perhaps Harry Dent.
But Brian is right that many economists disagree and also the theories are more accurate looking back than looking forward. It's easier fitting a theory to past events than using one to predict the future.
I don't believe it is total guess work though.
Quote: Maybe the only defining factor is that one has the opportunity to abuse our trust more than the other and giving both the power and opportunity I doubt one would be any different to the other - human nature at the end of the day.
Yes, I absolutely agree with that. That is also why I think hard left-wingers are remarkably similar to hard right-wingers: they both put self-interest or ideology before the interests of the people. My point has always been that the right-wing have always dominated the power structures of the western world - though to a much lesser extent in Scandinavia and so it seems to me rather irrelevant to treat the left as if they were some kind of threat. Of course, the left may become a threat one day - but that will only be because of short-sighted stupidity of an arrogant right-wing dominant hegemony. Sadly, the more stupid and extreme our present right-wing rulers become, the more stupid is the reaction of the left-wing reaction to be - the French Revolution comes to my mind...
I'm not sure that you or Zat and I differ that much on this: I think we all agree that power tends to draw a certain kind of people but no doubt those kind of people are potentially to be found throughout society.
Not to be a total pessimist but how in the world do you believe anyone or anything can influence a narcississtic politician? THEY ARE A law unto themselves and their own political adgenda I do not know one politician that is willing to stray from their own views or more like from the views of the people that grease their palms with money or position,
Money is influence influence is access and power and that is the rule of this shabby world
I wonder IF we would ever find a politician willing to be man (or woman) enough to look at others views and embrace their thoughts?
nah! I thought NOT!
SO join http://www.38degrees.org.uk/
and take BACK control of your country, OR RATHER take control for the first time!
the internet is a powerful tool and really hurts MP's my ex mp simon (3rd degree) burns stood in parliament and called the members of 38degrees "ZOMBIE LIKE" if its pissing off mps of it MUST be working
Quote: I do not know one politician that is willing to stray from their own views or more like from the views of the people that grease their palms with money or position,
Typical Socialist Worker attitude.
One politician in my view stands above all others Dennis Skinner. A credit to man, politics, Britain and himself.
Quote: I don't believe it is total guess work though.
me neither if I'm honest, but its economic theories are certainly not predictive tools, more a means of "Guestimation" (and a bit of hyperbole helps the discussion along nicely )
Quote: One politician in my view stands above all others Dennis Skinner. A credit to man, politics, Britain and himself.
or for that matter Enoch Powell. though we seem to be moving further away from politicians who actually have any convictions. Those that are really successful (like Blair and Cameron) seem to be only interested in what the focus groups say.
I wonder if Thatcher or Churchill would have been chosen for Party Leader these days... I kind of doubt it somehow.
Quote: In a system that perpetuates the indoctrination of taking advantage some people will try to do just that. Where you have such socio/economic extremes there are social consequences at those extremes, of course I accept that. The ordinary man isn't robbing me
Is he not tho ??? Hmmm ... I will tell you, my biggest worries at the moment arent about a bank collapse or the rising price of petrol or how many GCSE pass grades Sir Ronald Weezley Hamptonshire of the LibLaberative Party has ... my big fears are the idiots that caused my business so much damage and myself so many sleepless nights I closed it down and the morons that kicked my mirror off my car last week, the pit bull trophy dogs that populate our town and parks that almost ripped my neighbours hand off last week, its the scum burglar that will try to burgle my house when I go away in the holidays if he knows I am away, its the thieves that break into my partners shop at night or whether my now 16 yr old son can walk through our town safely without getting assaulted at night or having his Ipod taken off him by a gang or if the travellers will move back onto ther land nearby and destroy it again and in turn also start a mini crime wave at the same time ... Those are the things that affect my day to day life because they are real and present and personal to me from people I see around me - ordinary people and real worries not just perceived threats or threats derived from tabloid or broadsheet or left wing rag sensationalism that pander to my agenda. So the ordinary man IS robbing ME of both money and peace of mind on a daily basis.
Quote: there are plenty of theories that describe Boom & Bust cycles but none that can explain or predict it consistently. Read the literature and you will find there is significant disagreement on how to do this and which economic school of thought is correct (which should in itself tell us something about economics!).
I don't intend to produce lists of references,(but will be happy to do so if you insist! ) )
I don't doubt that there are many conflicting economic theories. My point was about the history of banks and their owners and the repeated scams they have pulled throughout banking history, starting in 1913, where the US had been in credit and several years after banks were privatised and given control of money the US suddenly found itself in a depression. Controlling money, debt, interests rates and inflation is fundamental to banking wether you enslave an individual or a nation.
Like yourself I don't intend to quote references but they are there if you insist
Quote: Maybe the only defining factor is that one has the opportunity to abuse our trust more than the other and giving both the power and opportunity I doubt one would be any different to the other - human nature at the end of the day.
Yes, I absolutely agree with that
I don't. As I said on the previous page a system that perpetuates the indoctrination of taking advantage of others, some people will do just that. 'Human nature' is a consequence of indoctrination, experience and the norms and values of a society. If we lived in a society where those at the top actually gave a damn about people and where policies were affected accordingly then 'human nature' would change. Children aren't born evil. Serial killers aren't born they are made.
Quote: I wonder if Thatcher or Churchill would have been chosen for Party Leader these days... I kind of doubt it somehow.
What we have today is Thatchers dream, is it not? Total deregulation, destruction of Unions or their almost total ineptitude and the privatisation of just about everything.
Cameron is also fulfilling Blair's dream, particularly regarding the NHS 
Monstersnowman, there's a simple reason why our prime minister can't empathise or understand the pain that these hard economic times are causing the common people - Cameron and Osbourne just live in a different world behind iron gates and armed guards.
They've been in the rarified atmosphere so long that they've forgotten what the real world looks like. Our Chancellor admitted that he hadn't bought a pasty from a bake-shop so he can't conceive the consequences of his actions when he puts VAT on them.
The common people are in pain, just as before the French revolution. Let's hope that the riots of last year aren't a fortaste of what's to come.
How do politicians manage to amass a fortune so that they can retire in luxury? It's certainly not just the 65k that an MP gets paid!
Quote: My point was about the history of banks and their owners and the repeated scams they have pulled throughout banking history, starting in 1913, where the US had been in credit and several years after banks were privatised and given control of money the US suddenly found itself in a depression. Controlling money, debt, interests rates and inflation is fundamental to banking wether you enslave an individual or a nation.
Yes - but, that is nothing to do with economics or economic theory but a lot to do with crooked dealing, criminality (oh, and a little bit of political reinterpretation maybe 
)
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