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Quote: I totally agree, fantastic computer skills.
Computer skills are the modern day Darkroom, no difference from the past in that regard
In the day those who did not have darkrooms complained about those who did, Slide film helped a little on the club scene and alowed two types of photography to run alongside each other
Quote: photoshopping is no different to the dark room of yesteryear
indeed - I always sit in a dark room with a red light on, with lots of chemicals around me, when I'm photoshopping 
I started a thread on this subject and deliberately avoided mentioning EC/HC and EPZ - because it's not just on EPZ where you see the dominance of "shopped" images... tiz everywhere, every site, every competition... not fair to have a dig at EPZ for this alone. Try 500px if you want to see "shopped heaven"
Actually... I got my first EC in ages with a non-shopped image of a little girl playing in a fountain... that was nice, a "real" photo getting recognition 
Just did a mono conversion with Lightroom and didn't even open it up in Photoshop..
I think people can hit upon that "winning formula" - a blend of shooting and processing which works. I can think of 2 fantastic togs who get awards for virtually every shot from Salford Quays and the Welsh Coast, respectively. Is the difference between them and those who don't get awards mainly down to their prowess in Photoshop?
The only way to truly know is if they let someone process one of their RAW files and upload them....
I can remember my photography teacher asking for images that are unreal. This was in the days of film.
I had a darkroom and processed all my own work. I photographed a local railway station I then photographed a bus outside of it.
I printed both images and carefully cut out the bus using a scalpel. I then thinned the underside of the edges of the bus so it sits better onto the railway station platform before gluing it onto the image. I then photographed the finished image and printed it. I got a 10 for that!
I and many others did a lot of manipulation in the days of film. Digital has made it easier and that's all.
Ken
It's a shame there is no way of having a special section on here where people could just post their raw images on. I have now decided that I will upload my pics straight from the camera to here only using the crop and resize facility. I might win the new "Stubborn Old Sod Award."
the "before and after" option is useful for this
you may have to be E2 to use it though...
but it's a variation on the "version" theme
Thanks for the info Ade. I think I'll just post untouched by photoshop software pics and see how I get on. It should make me think a bit more before pressing the camera shutter. A bit like the bad old days.
actually, I put some before and afters on facebook the other day... .
They're not complete, but just showed how far you can get with Lightroom 4 - before you delve into Photoshop
Perhaps its time for another RAW challenge 
Quote: Perhaps its time for another RAW challenge
Could be K.
That 'downloads' section is exactly the kind of backwater that I'm always moaning that I don't know exist.
A new challenge might remind a few people that it's still there and perhaps, inform a few others that have no knowledge of its existence.
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