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paulbroad
paulbroad  681 forum posts United Kingdom825 Constructive Critique Points
3 Mar 2012 - 4:15 PM

What do people feel about the following. Many will know that Epson printers have counters, one of which shuts down the printer and stops it working with the message - ink tank full - service required - or similar. Epson products are very good indeed, I own several, but this feature is, in my opinion, legalised fraud.

I had an R200 for a couple of years. It finally failed with the above message. I bought an R220 from a local dealer at less than the cost of a full set of genuine inks! I had taken the R200 to pieces and found the ink tank - a box with foam rubber insert, was 50% as new and what had been stained was dry.

The dealer told me, with a laugh, to use the free utility, SSC, which allows the counter to be reset. he said Epson did this to sell printers. After some usage the R220 gave the same warning. I reset it and placed it on a piece of old carpet should it leak. I have now reset it twice, no leaks and still excellent print quality. Thus it is in it's third life by Epson standards and thus the R200 was despatched whilst still in perfect working order.

A couple of weeks ago I bought an R1400 reduced at PC World. Checked the forums and this printer, too, will shut down but is not covered by the now old program - SSC. I note that a program is made available in the USA by Epson to reset the ink counter, but not in Europe. apparently the American program only works on a few European models, but the 1400 is possibly supported.

Look at it this way. You buy a new car, not lease or rent, buy. So, it is yours. You can use any oil or fluids and any parts you like providing you stay within the law. How would it be if after 12,000 miles the car said SERVICE DUE, I will not start after one week if you do not take me to the main dealer.

There would be a riot. Yet, that is exactly what Epson are doing. Selling you a product, then stopping it working after a set period.

They really should give a warning which can be reset, and a disclaimer should you not heed the warning but, in my opinion, just shutting down your machine is not acceptable.

What do people think.

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looboss
looboss  73124 forum posts United Kingdom7 Constructive Critique Points
3 Mar 2012 - 5:40 PM

I too use the SCC utility and have resettled it twice now... five years on the printer is till working fine!

GarethRobinson

Paul look on the back of your epson printers there is a little square of plastic with a star head screw in it, remove that look close inside you will see a clear tube, this is the tube that fills that pad with waste. So simple fix pull that tube out from the bottom it takes a little bit of pressure then put the tube in a small container and empty the waste as needed. I have not seen that error message since doing this.

I have this done on my R200 / 1400 and 1250 all working fine.

Gareth

Last Modified By GarethRobinson at 3 Mar 2012 - 6:35 PM
User_Removed
3 Mar 2012 - 7:55 PM

I think you will still, eventually, get the message - it seems to be copy count rather than waste ink level that triggers it. But you will find "fixes" for all Epson printers for a or two on eBay.

paulbroad
paulbroad  681 forum posts United Kingdom825 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2012 - 7:44 AM

Thanks so far. I know about the drain and that solves where the ink goes but not the message. That is produced by a counter working in the EPROM chip. It totally disables the printer. There should be no need to buy a program to reset the message as the message, or to be more precise, the disablement of the printer, should not happen.

My real point is that the manufacturer have built in obsolescence - they are switching off YOUR printer.

Paul

KevSB
KevSB  101388 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2012 - 8:43 AM

Happened to me few months ago, Annoyed me to hell also, Its possibly that I was bought up in a world when you buy something it belongs to you but over time that appears to be changing with more and more Purchases being linked to the company and control by them, the Games industry has gone this way Entirely requiring you to use Authorised online servers to even play your games even for single player at home.

Garrentees are becoming increasingly dependent on internet conection and registering to thier sites, As you are aware cameras change the specs of add ons between camera models so that ancillery equipment has also to be replaced like batterys ect with chips being required. As I said the world is changing and not for the good in my mind but i suspect this is the face of the future.

Last Modified By KevSB at 5 Mar 2012 - 8:44 AM
paulbroad
paulbroad  681 forum posts United Kingdom825 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2012 - 9:38 AM

Do we actually have to accept it? Is what Epson are doing fully legal? (Any solicitors reading this) I am considering talking to customer protection as this type of think annoys me a lot and I don't see why we should put up with it. If a program is available through Epson in the USA to reset printers, why not in Europe. Have they been taken to task in the states and found wanting I wonder.

I have written to Epson, but, as I expected, no answer.

This type of thing is becoming more common, but as in my example - what would anyone say if your car shut down each year until serviced!

Paul

Last Modified By paulbroad at 5 Mar 2012 - 9:40 AM
KevSB
KevSB  101388 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2012 - 9:55 AM

The key point is that It advises you to take it in for service, This could be seen as protecting your intrests so I would be amazed if you got anywhere with this. As i said Dont like it myself and I wonder how meny have scrapped perfectly good printers due to this.

Good luck with your attempt

what would anyone say if your car shut down each year until serviced!

Im sure they would if it was possible to do so
Grin

paulbroad
paulbroad  681 forum posts United Kingdom825 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2012 - 1:38 PM

I agree in principle, but the real issue is that you are being prevented from using your own property by a third party. That cannot be right. The advisory message is acceptable, the shut down is not and I would always believe that you should then be given the choice with appropriate warnings.

I am sure you are right in the long run, and that the system will always tend to protect the big boys rather than the victims - sorry, customers. I still think giving the customer protection people a chance to look at this might be worthwhile. Can't do any harm.

paul

User_Removed
5 Mar 2012 - 1:50 PM

Taking the motor car service analogy, surely Epson could do the same as the car manufacturers and declare the warranty invalid if the car (printer) goes more than 5% over the recommended service interval without being serviced by a registered agent. That would protect the manufacturer while leaving the choice with the user.

paulbroad
paulbroad  681 forum posts United Kingdom825 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2012 - 1:58 PM

Why not. Epson are quick enough to threaten to void warranty if you use third party inks. However, with just a years standard warranty, all they need is a warning, a disclaimer if you don't comply and a reset button. Then, no problems.

(I always use third party inks. The price of a full set of Epson inks for my R220 is more than the printer cost! I'm not bothered about print life, but I have framed prints on third party paper and inks at least 8 years old and as good as the day they were printed. I have had odd third party cartridges refuse to work, but have never had any real problems.)

You use any oil and fluids you like in your car. You might modify, and that could affect warranty and insurance - but it still works. My son owns a garage and says some third party parts are rather better made than the manufacturers own. Some come out of the same factories!

paul

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225716 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
5 Mar 2012 - 2:21 PM


Quote: As i said Don't like it myself and I wonder how many have scrapped perfectly good printers due to this.

And replaced them with a different make.

Vote with your s! Sad

macroman
macroman  1115312 forum posts England
5 Mar 2012 - 2:29 PM

The warranty issue is a bit of a red herring, as in most cases the printer will be out of warranty before the reset is flagged up.

My RX500 was over 2 years old before I got the message, I did a reset by pressing the buttons in a complicated sequence.

Dumping it was the best thing I've ever done (photographically). Grin

My Canon ip4300 is around 5 years old and still going strong with no messages, yet!

thewilliam
5 Mar 2012 - 8:56 PM

Many Epson printers use ink to flush the printheads and this does use a lot of ink. Wide format printers have a user-replaceable "maintenance tank" to catch the waste ink.

It is desirable or even vital to stop the printer when the waste ink receptacle is full and anyone who's ever spilled ink onto a carpet will know just how messy an overflow can be. Epson are playing safe and declare the waste tank full long before it really is. Can you imagine the law suits that would result if they did otherwise?

It annoys me that over the half of the ink we've bought for our Epson 7800 goes into the maintenance tank. The wasted ink has cost us more than the original purchase price of the printer.

User_Removed
5 Mar 2012 - 10:39 PM

Having upgraded from an Epson R1900 to an Epson R3000 at the end of last summer, I am utterly amazed at just how much cheaper the R3000 is to run - a factor that I put down to the much larger ink cartridge which means less cartridge changing and less "purging". Hopefully this will also be reflected in a much longer period of use before I get told to have it serviced. Having said that, I used the R1900 for several years and never reached that stage.

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