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Anybody else read Professional Photographer this month?? There's an article in there about 'Event Photography'. I was wondering what the implications are of just turning up to an 'event', shooting photo's and then offering them for sale??
Obviously common courtesy tells me that if there's an 'official photographer' then it would be polite NOT to intrude in his/her event - especially uninvited - but what's to stop someone from turning up at an event, taking photo's and then selling them?? Are there legal implications to consider such as private property laws?? Copyright laws?? Also...I know I said that it's polite not to turn up uninvited where an official photographer is present but... is that the case or am I just too polite?? (always!! hahah).
Has anybody had any experienced this sort of thing?? I'm just a little curious.
EDIT ==> Just to clarify, I'm talking mainly about outdoor events - Motorsports, equestrian etc. etc.
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regardless of where the event takes place (indoors or outdoors) the event will probably take place on private property.
Most owners of the property have no problem with Joe Public taking photographs for their own enjoyment (it would be difficult to stop in any case) but taking them for commercial gain is an entirely different matter.
Put simply, you can be prevented from taking photographs of any event that takes place on private property and therefore for the same reason you can (and probably will) be prevented from selling any images so obtained unless you have obtained prior permission.
Cheers for that Barrie,
I thought that might be the case.
Presumably, though, there's also a model release issue here too?? (going back to something that Serge wrote the other day), depending (or not??) on the subject matter of the photo - even more so on private property, then you'd have to obtain a model release from the subject in order to offer the photo for sale, which in it's own right is difficult if you're just walking round shooting photo's. Oh my god this starts to get all too complex really!! :o/
It's a nightmare this 'cos even when you have permission from the owners/organisers or whoever you then can fall foul of privacy 'laws' etc.
To cite an example. Earlier this year I was commssioned by a very well known childrens charity to photograph a major fund raising event taking place over 3 days. The event involved sponsored teams from various UK companies and organisations one of which was GCHQ in Cheltenham.
I was pleased with the results however, a few days after the event, the PR company involved called me to tell me the wonderful news that the powers that be at GCHQ or wherever had insisted that no photographs showing members of the team from GCHQ could be published depsite the fact that they had spent the best part of three days running around the streets of Wales wearing black tracksuits with the legend 'GCHQ' emblazoned across them!
What I am trying to say (very badly I expect) is that even when you have all the permission you think you might need, something always manages to bite you in the bum!
Just be glad you don't live in France where the situation is so ridiculous that you cannot even photograph monuments in the street!
hahahaha..... I don't live in France but I do, currently, live in Belgium. Guess I should go check out the privacy laws here..!!
Cheers Barrie, much appreciated.
It's not only events. All the land in Britain is owned by someone, unless you are standing on the 'public highway' you can be prevented from taking photographs. Certainly the Royal Parks and the National Trust have rules regarding 'professional' photography, in the case of the Royal Parks this means (or at least used to mean) no tripods without a permit and the NT requires one to get permission, usually involving a fee, before selling photos taken on their land!
Read the back of the ticket for the event... it will often say "no photography without permission"
I guess I should delete my shot of the biker getting "big air" at Sheffield arena
Barrie, does this also apply to images of events taking place on private property, where the photographer is on public land?
To give a specific example, photos taken of a railway open day at a maintenance depot, where the photographer is standing on the public highway looking over or through a chain-link fence.
On a widely different note,Gangstey is that one of those terrorist ransom photos on your biog ?
Are you holding that cake hostage ?
Sorry.As you were.....
Not sure about this. I think lawyers and judges could have a field day (and probably do) over issues like this.
Whilst you are on common land you are photographing private property.
I imagine this is one of thse moments where the law is open to interpretation.
No wonder there are many rich lawyers and few rich photographers
Hi All, this could get really messy, but just to let you know, for the past 18mths i have been taking motorsport (specifically Karting) with the organisers permission, only cost a phone call, all they wanted in return was a copy of some images for there website, and they were very happy for me to sell them, not catches.
Regarding the privacy aspect, i recall the law in the uk, is still anything in public domain is "fair game" except in the precincts of a court, or in hospital grounds, (having learnt from personal experience) its always best to check, but most! (not all) competitors are usually only too happy to get the chance to buy pictures.
But then again i live in scotland, dont know about english law, will reread the Copyright Act tonight and see what it says!
Pikey: Yes. Unfortunately the owners wouldn't pay up, so I had to eat it :o)
Barrie: It would seem so. It has been discussed in many fora, both railway and legal, and no one seems to know the answer. I guess its waiting for a test case.
Graham, if you are on genuinly public land (Barrie, common land is almost always private property with certain "commoners' rights" available to those designated as "commoners") you can, in England and Wales, photograph whatever you want wherever it is located unless it is covered by the official secrets act. (Scotland has its own laws and may be different) That's how the paparazzi get away with it an why they need those ridiculously long lenses (did I hear an alternative psychological explanation?)
Thanks for that peter. Is there a single place where this 'right' is defined, or does it come about because its not explicitly mentioned in any restrictions?
The reason I ask is that some years ago I was taking a picture of a building (from a public highway) and a security guard came out and said that I could not take pictures of there building as it was private property. Not knowing any better, and not being brave enough to argue I walked away. I'd like to have all the facts of law to hand next time something similar happens.
Good question, I suspect the BIPP and/or the RPS, BFP etc. produce literature on the matter, it tends to be one of those things one picks up peacemeal over the years. (Some) security guards get their jollies by intimidating people I guess. There's no-one more officious than someone protecting someone else's property!!!!
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