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conrad
conrad e2 Member 910870 forum postsconrad vcard 116 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 10:46 AM

Or worse, the 'English' text on the labels was a 'machine translation'. (Oh horror of horrors!)

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2 Oct 2012 - 10:46 AM

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mikehit
mikehit e2 Member 45766 forum postsmikehit vcard United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 10:47 AM


Quote: "20 items or less" nooo! It is "20 items or FEWER!!"
Ah. Now you've tapped into another seam of grump! Since when did we become able to buy a "scissor", or a "trouser"?

Look at it from the other angle: why are they in the plural form?

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 10:56 AM

TV Programmes and even BBC News will say " The government are going to do................"

The government is a singular item and therefore demands the singular tense ie "The government is going to do......."

similarly, "The jury arrived at their verdict........" should be "The jury arrived at its verdict......" and no apostrophe between "t" and "s" either, one of those English anomolies.

I find myself shouting at the television when it is BBC as that organisation is supposed to uphold "The Queen's English."

What about football managers who say before a match "We are hoping to get a result." Don't they always, a win, a draw or a loss.

Ewanneil
Ewanneil  31118 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 11:09 AM

Or the BBC newsreaders who say "... and now the news and weather where you live." just before going over to the regional newsrooms where surprise, surprise they are not giving me the news and weather from my town but are instead giving me the same news and weather that someone who lives in Lerwick (468 miles from my house) is getting.

I don't necessarily want the news and weather from my town. I just want them to say something more appropriate.

mikehit
mikehit e2 Member 45766 forum postsmikehit vcard United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 11:20 AM

Ah! the collective noun. It still causes much discussion among students of English and there is no right or wrong way.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 1:29 PM


Quote: Ah! the collective noun. It still causes much discussion among students of English and there is no right or wrong way.

Oh yes there is! Maybe modern day people who finish sentences with "Innit" and "Yeah!" discuss the matter but pure English demands that a singular word 'Is' going to do something as opposed to 'are' going to.

I do see that words change according to "English as it is spoke" (sic) and as foreigners and the uneducated endeavour to change our once great and still world-wide language with Franglais and other mixed lingual verbiage, but for me English as it is spoken is "The Queen's English" and long may it remain so.

mikehit
mikehit e2 Member 45766 forum postsmikehit vcard United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 1:47 PM


Quote: Ah! the collective noun. It still causes much discussion among students of English and there is no right or wrong way.

pure English demands that a singular word 'Is' going to do something as opposed to 'are' going to.



Try googling 'collective noun plural' and you will see that it is not as clear cut as you seem to think. But then again they are probably all wrong as well.

shadow18
shadow18  3406 forum posts England
2 Oct 2012 - 2:18 PM

Isn't it supposed to be like this?

"parliament is going to pass a law."
"parliament are arguing about the law"
"the flock is migrating south"
"the flock are scattering as the car drives by them."

Not the best examples, but I thought it had to do with if they acted as a group or as individuals.

shadow18
shadow18  3406 forum posts England
2 Oct 2012 - 2:45 PM

Oh! And haha! I started a new grumpy seam! Grin that's hilarious!

Finally, people who understand my annoyance with "20 item or less!" that makes me so happy because usually nobody commiserates with my incorrect grammar annoyances! Either they're like whatever or they maybe don't understand because they don't know grammar!

Or maybe I'm pedantic! Oh dear! Dear me! What shall I do?

mikehit
mikehit e2 Member 45766 forum postsmikehit vcard United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 3:38 PM

Carry on being pedantic, of course. Having an excuse to be grumpy means the simple things are more enjoyable....so says my wife, anyway (I have no idea what she means).

mikehit
mikehit e2 Member 45766 forum postsmikehit vcard United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 3:44 PM


Quote: Isn't it supposed to be like this?

"parliament is going to pass a law."
"parliament are arguing about the law"
"the flock is migrating south"
"the flock are scattering as the car drives by them."

Not the best examples, but I thought it had to do with if they acted as a group or as individuals.

So if the jury and the government are not unanimous in their decision....? Wink

Last Modified By mikehit at 2 Oct 2012 - 3:45 PM
keith selmes
2 Oct 2012 - 4:15 PM

Teacher: Now then, trousers, singular or plural ?
Boy: Please sir, singular at the top, and plural at the bottom.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 4:33 PM


Quote: Isn't it supposed to be like this?
"parliament is going to pass a law."
"parliament are arguing about the law"
"the flock is migrating south"
"the flock are scattering as the car drives by them."

Not the best examples, but I thought it had to do with if they acted as a group or as individuals.

should of course be as follows.

"parliament is going to pass a law."
"parliament is arguing about the law"
"the flock is migrating south"
"the flock is scattering as the car drives by them."

Or
The members of parliament are arguing about the law
and
The birds of the flock are scattering as the car drives by.

simple really. The problem is, as I mentioned earlier, errors creep in and become accepted as common usage. For my education at Liverpool's top (and still is) Grammar School in the 1950s correct grammar still rules the day as it did then. The Queen's English.

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 2 Oct 2012 - 4:35 PM
mikehit
mikehit e2 Member 45766 forum postsmikehit vcard United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 4:45 PM


Quote: errors creep in and become accepted as common usage

And I guess Shakespeare, Dr Johnson, Bronte and Byron would say the same thing.

newfocus
newfocus  7644 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
2 Oct 2012 - 10:17 PM


Quote: errors creep in and become accepted as common usage

Yes - that's just how evolution works Wink

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