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F1 and Team Orders

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roxpix
roxpix  102236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 11:15 AM


Quote: I fear the solution is to acknowledge that it is a team sport and that the constructers title is more important to the teams than the drivers title will ever be

This isn't true. If they are only interested in the constructor's title, it wouldn't matter to them which order their drivers finished. The fact is, they want their driver to win the driver's title, which means prioritising one driver over the other, so he always gets the better of the two scores. So, do away with the driver's title, or just run one car per team, as mentioned above. Or run a relay - one car pits, the other comes out.

I know the flaw in my statement was a 1-2 either way round is the same constructer points but the constructers title remains No1 objective from the 'teams' perspective and yesterday proves it. They would not have had the drivers switch positions if it was to the detrement of the overall team points

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26 Jul 2010 - 11:15 AM

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sidaorb
sidaorb  83857 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 11:26 AM

What should have happened.......

Team radio - 'Alonso is faster, do you understand?'
Massa - 'Yes, should make for an exciting finish then if he TRIES to pass me'

What really happened........Translation....

Team radio -'Alonso is faster, do you understand?......that if you don't pull over he will throw his teddy out of the pram quicker than an EPZ member with the hump, threaten to leave, stamp his feet and squeem and squeem and squeem until he is sick'
Massa -'Oh god not again!'

Last Modified By sidaorb at 26 Jul 2010 - 11:27 AM
digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 12:13 PM

The fact that they did this to Massa a year to the weekend after he almost died just confirms what a shower of sh**s they really are!

I rarely agree with Eddie Jordan, but he was spot on yesterday. That debacle denied the fans the chance to watch a race.

I disliked Alonso when he was at Maclaren and crying about the newcomer being better than him, I like him even less now. I suppose you could say at least he had the good grace to look rather shamefaced at the end of the parade!

Ian

Sparkleson
26 Jul 2010 - 2:05 PM

Had it been McLaren doing this, Ferrari would be the first to complain and demand that both drivers lose the points they won AND the team lost ALL their constructors points.

So now that Ferrari have done it, I think that it should be done to them - Both Massa & Alonso should forfeit the winning points, and Ferrari should aotumatically finish bottom of the constructor's championship. That way, they'd be less likely to do it again, and if the drivers were given the orders, they'd be more likely to ignore them as they know what the consequences would be.

The punishment Ferrari got? $100,000 ... That's small change to them, they probably carry more cash than that in their pockets!!

Sparkleson
26 Jul 2010 - 2:07 PM


Quote: I disliked Alonso when he was at Maclaren and crying about the newcomer being better than him, I like him even less now.

Alonso lost his edge when he left Renault ... But of course, it has to be everyone elses fault ...

mattw
mattw  105189 forum posts United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 3:16 PM


Quote: The fact that they did this to Massa a year to the weekend after he almost died just confirms what a shower of sh**s they really are!

... and just one race after Red Bull created such a storm after switching wings... and two races after Ferrari were making their 'we play by the rules and we lost out' outcry. Clearly they only play by the rules when they want to.

Ferrari may want to think about why they are in F1. It is to win the WDC, or is it to sell more cars? Becasue sometimes the goals are not mutualy inclusive, as was the case yesterday.

The case has been refered to the WMSC, so Ferrari may yet face further sanctions.

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 3:21 PM

I hope they give the race win to Massa, disqualify Alonso and dock Ferrari all their constructors points. Mind you the win is spoiled for Massa now whatever happens.

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 5:39 PM


Quote: I hope they give the race win to Massa, disqualify Alonso and dock Ferrari all their constructors points. Mind you the win is spoiled for Massa now whatever happens.

Spot on - what I'd give to see that happen.

I feel really sorry for Massa - his face and body language said it all in the press conference.

The biggest problem is Ferrari think they are better than everyone else and bigger than the sport itself.

I just wish someone in authority had the cajones to stand up to them, face them down and give them a reality check for the real world.

lawbert
lawbert  71713 forum posts England15 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 5:47 PM

I say well done to the Prancing Horse.
For the price of a second hand 430 they have put Alonso back in the fight for the Drivers Title....
Thats Motor Racing...
Big budgets.....
So Much small print in the drivers contracts that we will never know as to who is Driver 1 or driver 2
Come on Maranello.....Fight back and win at any costWink

answersonapostcard
answersonapostcard Site Moderator 1012603 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 5:50 PM


Quote: Thats Motor Racing...

Is it? If he was any good he would have overtaken Massa, not been given the race.

lawbert
lawbert  71713 forum posts England15 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 6:00 PM


Quote: Thats Motor Racing...Is it? If he was any good he would have overtaken Massa, not been given the race.

Like it or not Ferrari had a One, Two available to them and gave the win to the driver with the most points to maximise thier chances of winning the drivers title which means more to the Prancing Horse than the constructors.
Even 7 time world champ schumacher backed the swap.
Its life...sod Massas feelings....His multi million contract will ease that...let the best driver with the best chance fight for the championshipWink

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 6:16 PM

Sadly the Maranello Mafia think the rules don't apply to them and ignore them when it suits them and cry foul when in their opinion other teams "break the rules"

Such is the hypocrisy and double standards of the Prancing Horse.

What Ferrari did was not sporting - team orders ruined the race.

The 7 times winner Moo-Shagger has plenty of dirty tricks skeletons in his closet - that's nothing to be proud of.

The fact that Moo-Shagger backed the swap proves how little respect some people have for the rule book.

Massa deserved better treatment.

If cry baby Alonso couldn't overtake Massa - so be it.

If Alonso understood what a "Pyrrhic Victory" was - this would be it.

cathal
cathal  10492 forum posts Ireland4 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 6:16 PM

There has always been, and always will be, team orders in F1. The problem is that every team wants to win both the constructors and drivers championships. They need two drivers to maximise their points for the constructors title, but only one driver can lift the title. The fine is insignificant to Ferrari. I'd go as far to say it represents value for money. It certainly is not a deterrent to repeat offending.

The FIA has a choice to make. They either abandon the rule, or put a significant penalty in place. By significant, I mean serious point deductions (driver and constructor) and suspensions.

Won't happen though... Can't see the former Ferrari team manager who now runs the FIA going for that!

mattw
mattw  105189 forum posts United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
26 Jul 2010 - 6:50 PM


Quote: Thats Motor Racing...

Err, no - that was a parade.

motor racing is when the drivers get to compete with each other...


Quote: let the best driver with the best chance fight for the championship

fight?
It would be nice if the best driver could prove it on the track

montechoro
montechoro  112340 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jul 2010 - 8:02 AM

Team Orders?

Otherwise known as "Race Fixing" and should be treated as such.

Ferrari knew the rules and openly ignored them.

I can't see why they of all people are crying "It's not fair"

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