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Fine Art

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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315391 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
15 Dec 2012 - 8:01 PM


Quote: Basically it is all about being creative and separating it from journalism and commercial photography. Take a look at the Wikipedia definition, if you can stay awake long enough

That`s pretty much it, nothing more.

Paul being a photographic judge I would have thought you would have all ready been aware of this bread and butter stuff.

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paulbroad
paulbroad  781 forum posts United Kingdom854 Constructive Critique Points
16 Dec 2012 - 7:53 AM

I may have been a bit cynical when I started this off. I had looked at this fine art photographer - his words - work and, for me, it was not very good. It's still a matter of who decides what is good. That person has to be the viewer. Some people buy images because someone else, an expert, has said they are good.

I might buy a Lowrie as an investment. I certainly would not put it on my wall. Personal preference.

So, all art must be down to personal preference I think.

Paul

779HOB
779HOB  21021 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Dec 2012 - 8:48 AM


Quote: Generally fine art is considered art that is created to create emotion rather than reproduce a scene.

I don't really agree with that. Unless you include photojournalism as fine art. But in principle I would agree that it's not the recording of a scene like a landscape, however blurry you make the water.

Fine art photography is more about this sort of thing. Paul Biddle was the first person to introduce a camera to me a school and show me how to use a darkroom. Paul Biddle's website

paulcookphotography


Quote:

I don't really agree with that. Unless you include photojournalism as fine art.

Although some photojournalism can be artistic, it it still largely capturing a scene/event playing out before you, and not a planned and structured approach to creating an artistic statement.

Having each model pose in a certain way with a particular expression, all carefully composed and lit to express the vision of the photographer/artist would then start to fall into the realms of fine art. Fine art isnt just about a great image, painting, collage, sculpture, etc (after all, beauty/art is in the eye of the beholder), its also about the approach to it. And yes, we all know a photographer should always have a shot planned in his/her mind before taking it, but i am talking about the actual creation of the scene and not just the technical aspects of the capture

779HOB
779HOB  21021 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Dec 2012 - 9:23 AM


Quote: Although some photojournalism can be artistic, it it still largely capturing a scene/event playing out before you, and not a planned and structured approach to creating an artistic statement.

It was the mention of creating emotion in your first statement that I was referring to.


Quote: Having each model pose in a certain way with a particular expression, all carefully composed and lit to express the vision of the photographer/artist would then start to fall into the realms of fine art.........

Agree and with that the rest of what you say in the above post.

miptog
miptog  83532 forum posts United Kingdom61 Constructive Critique Points
16 Dec 2012 - 11:49 AM

As has been mentioned in the Wikipedia defintion; there is no widely accepeted and agreed defintion of fine art photography. There is also much debate and contention if photography is art. Clearly there are works by photographers that have artistic merit.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41207 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
16 Dec 2012 - 2:48 PM

Again, I refer you to the top picture on the Wiki page...Steiglitz's "The Steerage". Thus far it doesn't fulfil any of your descriptions of fine art, but it looks more like reportage/documentary to me. What makes it fine art? The fact that its by Steiglitz?

779HOB
779HOB  21021 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Dec 2012 - 3:00 PM


Quote: it looks more like reportage/documentary to me

Me too, but it is Wikipedia after all.

paulcookphotography


Quote: Again, I refer you to the top picture on the Wiki page...Steiglitz's "The Steerage". Thus far it doesn't fulfil any of your descriptions of fine art, but it looks more like reportage/documentary to me. What makes it fine art? The fact that its by Steiglitz?

I'm only going with the guidelines we were given whlie studying my MFA. We worked in studios creating portfolios and planning works that took weeks to develop before even putting paint on a brush or loading film in a camera. Learning the techniques and how to use them to bring your creation to 'life'. Its not quite a clinical approach to art, but more of a predetermined route

I'd suggest maybe googling fine art and looking at some works. Not just photography, but fine art in all its forms and look at the plans, processes and techniques the artist has utilised to create the work. It may help separate things.

That said, there is a lot of art that gets described as fine art when it isnt (contentious point, i now, but thats where the snobbery part comes in to play - like calling any old car a 'classic' i guess). Sometimes art just 'happens', sometimes its evolved

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41207 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 12:59 AM

....and that is my point exactly. If you consider fine art to be considered, created, planned and executed....and not just a snapshot, then maybe the originator of the work is not the one to be judging whether it's fine art or not?

If I called all my work fine art, does that make it fine art? No, it makes me pretentious.
If you, looking at my work, considered it good enough to be fine art, I'd be flattered, but it still wouldn't necessarily be fine art.
If lots of photographic/art critics and my peers considered it fine art, then maybe I'd be getting close (but I still wouldn't believe you!).

Paul...is all the work you produce fine art, because you have a quaification? I doubt you'd make that claim.

Unfortunately, I come from a world (of engineering) where things are much more black and white, right or wrong, categorised. I don't think fine art is a category, as so many other categories fit in, around and interact with it....time for a Venn Diagram, methinks....

I think it is snobbery to label your own work a fine art. Let others do it for you.

Nick

paulcookphotography

I have a Master of Fine Arts degree, but no, I wouldn't class the majority of what I do as such. Some of my concept work would however be regarded as fine art. That's not me being pretentious, but what certain types of work is termed as within that discipline.

You may choose to dismiss fine art as a category or even look at it as a term people use to describe what they see as high quality, but can you simply ignore the artistic worlds acceptance of it? Art is a very complex thing covering a multitude of genres and cannot be looked at as black and white (for want of a better term). Fine art isn't restricted to photography, but includes it as a conceptual medium

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315391 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 3:02 AM


Quote: and that is my point exactly. If you consider fine art to be considered, created, planned and executed....and not just a snapshot

Did you not see my earlier link ?

What is a snap shot, its simply a picture taken spontaneously and quickly, Henri Cartier-Bresson spent years refining this technique, then somebody else came along and called it the decisive moment Smile Smile

90% of the pictures you see on websites like this are snapshots, the other 10% are taken in some form of controlled environment like a studio.

Does fine art have to be planned and created, no Smile

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315391 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 3:13 AM


Quote: So, all art must be down to personal preference I think

I recently found an old victorian wooden foot locker in skip.

Rescued it and cleaned it up, its now a trendy coffee table, what somebody else thought of as junk became something completely different to me Smile

iancrowson
iancrowson e2 Member 4211 forum postsiancrowson vcard United Kingdom129 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 1:41 PM

I've just been surfing photo websites. I now realise what a fine art photograph is. If ordinary people like me have trouble understanding the 'meaning' of an image and are too worried to ask, or don't understand the explanation given then it must be fine art. Fine means better than or above the masses. Someone said snobbish, they are spot on.
Ian

paulcookphotography

Awesome. So its confirmed i have a degree in snobbery and work in a snobbish fashion, sell my work in a snobbish gallery (to snobs, i guess?) and have snobbish exhibitions. Or is it just fine art photography that classed in such a way?


Quote: If ordinary people like me have trouble understanding the 'meaning' of an image and are too worried to ask, or don't understand the explanation given then it must be fine art.

Interesting interpretation. "Ignorance breeds contempt" is alive and well i see

Last Modified By paulcookphotography at 17 Dec 2012 - 3:27 PM

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