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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315347 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
1 Nov 2013 - 1:43 AM

Guess all depends on how far you want to go, most people are perfectly happy using TTL and don`t feel the need to learn manual Smile

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1 Nov 2013 - 1:43 AM

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arhb
arhb e2 Member 72268 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom68 Constructive Critique Points
1 Nov 2013 - 9:27 AM

Good point Paul.
The reason I decided to learn manual was because I wanted to use the flash off-camera -
without the limitations of flash cord, or enough budget for radio frequency ettl.

Manual(off-camera) gives you a broader option on what flashes you want to use, including a mixture of studio strobes AND speedlites if needed,
and cheap, reliable radio trigger/receivers.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315347 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
1 Nov 2013 - 11:39 AM

Back in the early eighties I started out using auto (not ttl) and after about six months or so switched to manual, I bought my first fully modern TTL unit in 2003.

arhb
arhb e2 Member 72268 forum postsarhb vcard United Kingdom68 Constructive Critique Points
1 Nov 2013 - 1:51 PM

Yes I also remember using both - quite uncreatively to be honest, at about the same time.
What's changed is that with manual mode now and with digital, if it's over/under-exposed, you just delete and adjust flash exposure for the nest shot -
you dont have to wait till your in your darkroom, or collection from Boots, to know how you're getting on.
Manual mode isn't rocket science, it is in simple terms, lighter or darker Smile

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315347 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
2 Nov 2013 - 9:18 PM

I still use the older units, they often have a much shorter flash duration compared to modern units, so I can squeeze out higher shutter speeds when using leaf shutters.

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41207 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 12:48 AM

When using normal leaf shutters, it should sync at all speeds, usually up to the maximum 1/500 sec. The high speeds do not create a slit that travels across the frame as they do with focal plane shutters, so the whole recording area is exposed at the same time.

Nick

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315347 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 1:14 AM

Yes we already know that, I`m not talking about sync speed, just simply the flash duration.

Using older units you can often get away with using much higher shutter speeds.

Older flash tubes contained air, modern units contain zeon gas and burn longer.

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 3 Nov 2013 - 1:21 AM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 1:22 PM

triggers have an impact too - Pixel Rook's are fine at 1/200th, maybe even a little faster

Yongnuo 603's give a dark band at 1/200th, so fastest you can really use them is 1/160th... that's on a 5D2

just in my experience - others may differ

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73869 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 4:48 PM

I'd agree with that Ade for Nikon too for Yongnuo, tho it's ok slightly faster at lower power settings (1/200) with an SB900.

Personally I've never used ettl/ iTtl. Preferring to learn the hard way and understand what's going on. I too use the histogram to gauge which way I need to go, to the left, increase power, to the right decrease power. The Yongnuo system is hard to beat for the price - if you go manual.

Last Modified By Nick_w at 3 Nov 2013 - 4:50 PM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 7:00 PM

I very rarely use ETTL other than when "on the move" and "having to shoot fast"

example - when the bride and groom are walking down the aisle after they've got married... if you used manual then... well you'd have to keep the distance the same all the way down and plan the flash power somehow - risking getting a lot of badly exposed shots.

as with almost everything in Photography, the answer to every question is "it depends...."

if you're shooting off a tripod, subject in one place and not moving much, camera settings fixed - then absolutely shoot manual

the last time I shot in ETTL would have been the middle of september... but I always have my ETTL flash in the bag, just in case.

one of my "trainees" is shooting a wedding soon (against my advice - told her to get drunk and enjoy her friend's wedding instead) and has a manual flash - just told her to get an ETTL one or it would be a "bloody nightmare" when things start moving around.

Manual flash is a bit like flying a plane - it's initially all about learning the theory, then it's all about the "hours" you put in learning by experience.

ETTL flash is like being a passenger on the plane - you just buckle up and off you go, letting someone else do the work

the question is - do you want to fly, or be a passenger?

the answer....

"it depends"

Wink

lawbert
lawbert  71713 forum posts England15 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 7:19 PM


Quote: Triggers have an impact too - Pixel Rook's are fine at 1/200th, maybe even a little faster

Yongnuo 603's give a dark band at 1/200th, so fastest you can really use them is 1/160th... that's on a 5D2

just in my experience - others may differ

Interesting to hear that Ade,

Im struggling to reproduce what I used to since ive gone to cheapy wireless triggers

Im going to go back to a cable for now and let my master flash trigger the other 2...(All Canon)

I guess I got what I paid for!!

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315347 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 8:32 PM

I found with my X10 I can sync up to around 1/2000 sec, anything beyond that and flash then starts to struggle.

Most wireless triggers will limit your speed though.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315347 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2013 - 8:43 PM

Test have been done comparing the cheap Yongnuo`s against Canons much dearer flash units.

The cheap Yongnuo`s are better if you need faster shutter speeds, guess with these cheaper units the tubes are just filled with air.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
4 Nov 2013 - 9:16 AM

I'm shooting a lawyer in a park at 1 today... I'll have to use wireless... Wink

saltireblue
saltireblue Site Moderator 43913 forum postssaltireblue vcard Norway25 Constructive Critique Points
4 Nov 2013 - 2:52 PM


Quote: I'm shooting a lawyer in a park at 1 today... I'll have to use wireless... Wink

Personally I'd use a 345 MagnumWink 1pm?...should be high noon.

Last Modified By saltireblue at 4 Nov 2013 - 2:53 PM

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