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Food for Thought

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StrayCat
StrayCat  1014441 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
21 Sep 2011 - 5:26 PM

Possibly the best sentences you"ll ever hear.


There is a number 6 and it comes from Maggie Thatcher:

* Socialism fails when it runs out of other people’s money!

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

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21 Sep 2011 - 5:26 PM

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MrGoatsmilk
21 Sep 2011 - 8:20 PM

Very good, where are they from I'm going to use them as status updates Smile

rossd
rossd  111061 forum posts England
21 Sep 2011 - 8:29 PM

Some gems there sure enough.

I'd also like to know where they're from (you didn't make them up did you Straycat ? Smile)

StrayCat
StrayCat  1014441 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
21 Sep 2011 - 9:59 PM

I'll see if I can find out.

OK, I've emailed the person who sent them to me.

Last Modified By StrayCat at 21 Sep 2011 - 10:04 PM
ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
21 Sep 2011 - 10:51 PM

lots of truth there with all of them, can you send that to downing street lol.Wink

Ian.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102251 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 3:27 PM


Quote: Possibly the best sentences you"ll ever hear.


There is a number 6 and it comes from Maggie Thatcher:

* Socialism fails when it runs out of other people’s money!

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Oh, Denny: Those are some of the worst sentences that I've read! WinkSad
I'm sorry but the best that I can say about these sentences is that numbers 2,3 and 4 are truisms, though admittedly, as point 3 asserts, many of us do seem to forget that the government relies on taxes and theoretically, at least doesn't have money of its own to spend.

As to statement 1. "You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity".
Well, all I can say is that the gap between rich and poor in the UK and US is so enormous that I think it will be a long time before the rich are taxed or "legislated out of prosperity". I think it is more than reasonable to ask the rich to take pretty hefty cuts in their income in order to redistribute to the poorer sections of society. After all, it is mainly the rich sector of society to blame for bringing down our economies with its endless promotion of credit loans and use of "funny money".

Quote: 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Statement number 5 may be true but I think it needs to be balanced with another equally valid (or more valid) statement like "Workers need incentives as much as their employers".
My own favourite truism is one that reminds us that continuous economic growth in a world of finite resources is illogical. Wink

I may come across as a "Bolshie" liberal leftie but I'm not interested in ideology so much as what I see as the reality of the situation when stepping back from the media hype. Wink

strawman
strawman  1021997 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 3:53 PM

They are based on a level of logic but there are also equal balancing items you need. I think you need to add a few more to represent a balance society. So can I kick it of with

6 The seeds of revolution get sown when a few make ever increasing amounts of money while many labour harder and longer for less.

I also agree that endless economic growth has to be questioned, the western economies have pretty well flattened out, now you are looking at the BRIC countries growing to generate wealth for themselves and you can see a portion of wealth re-distribution occurring, it is just from us to them, and that may be hard pill for us to swallow, but remember a lot of our wealth has been generated though use of other countries resources.

scrimmy
scrimmy e2 Member 5364 forum postsscrimmy vcard Scotland5 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 3:54 PM

The socialism I believe in is not really politics. It is a way of living. It is humanity. I believe the only way to live and to be truly successful is by collective effort, with everyone working for each other, everyone helping each other, and everyone having a share of the rewards at the end of the day.
Bill Shankly

Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41175 forum posts United Kingdom196 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 4:22 PM

......and it's about as likely to happen as my local pub team winning the FA Cup!

What incentive is there for the rich to give up their wealth? The warm fuzzy feeling inside of knowing they helped their fellow man?

strawman
strawman  1021997 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 4:50 PM


Quote: .....and it's about as likely to happen as my local pub team winning the FA Cup!

Just buy them a playstation and their dream can come true.

Next difficult problem to solve? Wink

Ewanneil
Ewanneil  41118 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 4:55 PM


Quote: The warm fuzzy feeling inside of knowing they helped their fellow man?

Andrew Carnegie may have thought so:-

I resolved to stop accumulating and begin the infinitely more serious and difficult task of wise distribution.

Surplus wealth is a sacred trust which its possessor is bound to administer in his lifetime for the good of the community.

Andrew Carnegie

StrayCat
StrayCat  1014441 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 8:00 PM

I like that Carnegie quote, reminds me of Bill Gates, his wife, and his many philanthropist colleagues.

The key is that yes, we pay taxes, but the spending and distribution of those taxes must be done in a manner that best benefits society. The recent bailouts in the US were largely a waste of taxpayers money, the most disgraceful waste being the distribution of a large portion of the funds to top management as bonuses. It's akin to money going to charities in underdeveloped countries, and ending up in the Swiss Bank accounts of a few greedy despots.

We are on the verge of a recession, or already in one, imo, and the biggest loss in a recession is jobs, good paying, meaningful jobs. In 1948, it took 6 months for a full recovery from the recession, in other words, people regained the jobs they had lost because of it. In 2008, the recovery rate is at 5 years. The present recession will take 20 years using conventional, or traditional methods of recovery.

Jay Leno told a joke the other night, he said; President Obama's new job creation program will create 1.4 million jobs, 10 of them in the United States. Not so funny for many people.

The CEO of Dow Chemical, and the CEO of General Motors are calling for a return of many jobs that have gone offshore in recent years. They say it can be done, with co-operation of industry, Unions and government. It's something I've believed for years. At present the US developes new technology, then it's put into production in Mexico, China, India, etc., and the products imported to the US. The cost is the good paying jobs, and all the spinnoff financial benefits. The countries who use the new technology get to develope it further, and it becomes a catch 22 for the US.

I'm confident major changes will take place after the election next year in the US. Right now Congress is strangling anything that Obama tries to do that may help the people, because they have one thing in mind, make him look as bad as possible before the election. We are all affected by what happens in the US, so it's going to be a rough 13 months or so.

Much of what the industry leaders are talking about in the US may be sparked by patriotism but let's not be so naive as to forget that wages are rising in the countries that have received the jobs benefits from the US, and the American consumer is a valuable asset.

Last Modified By StrayCat at 26 Sep 2011 - 8:01 PM
mikehit
mikehit  46144 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 9:37 PM


Quote: 1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

That is certainly an attitude problem with the Labour party in the UK. What I also call the politics of envy - the irony of course being that the MPs themselves are part of the wealthy classes that they supposedly despise.


Quote: 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

This, of course, is the basis of the social welfare state and is a matter of semantics - and I would rather have the welfare state than not. But the negative vie of this leads to point 5 - which to me shows that the recipients of welfare have to remember where it comes from. Rights come with responsibilities.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102251 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2011 - 10:18 PM


Quote: That is certainly an attitude problem with the Labour party in the UK. What I also call the politics of envy - the irony of course being that the MPs themselves are part of the wealthy classes that they supposedly despise.


Well, I think that the Labour party doesn't have a problem - because it no longer exists: Blair, Mandelson and Alistair Campbell killed off any remnants of the old Labour Party when they invented the New Labour Tory Party.
It all gets back to greed doesn't it - whichever Party is in power? Greed runs throughout society from top to bottom so I'm sure nothing will change unless we somehow change our values and cultural attitudes. I think the only way forward is if we can learn to share power and responsibilities more and creating a more democratic media and society.

mikehit
mikehit  46144 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
27 Sep 2011 - 10:24 AM

Blair certainly changed the face of the Labour party but if you look at what Brown did for 14 years, it was nothing short of the old spendthrift 70s socialism. Although he has now gone I think there is a strong enough rump that there will always be that underswell of opnion colouring their policies.

Greed has certainly been a real problem for the last 20 years and this has been supported by the fixation on the need for growth aka the 'fast buck'. Hopefully the events of the last 5 years will lead to tighter governmental controls giving a more sound financial basis for companies as well as governments. But I ain't holding my breath too hard...

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