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    Gundog
    Gundog  1624 forum posts Scotland
    15 Jun 2013 - 9:41 PM

    For a demolition of some of the myths in the Independence Referendum debate, see here:

    http://www.premier-pages.co.uk/scottish/

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    15 Jun 2013 - 9:41 PM

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    scottishphototours

    Independence. One man's way of getting into the history books. Nothing more, nothing less...

    mossy
    mossy  146 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jun 2013 - 6:29 AM

    Dear Hadrian, your wall is in a disgraceful state of repair, can you send some soldiers to remedy this as i keep hearing rumblings from ower the border. Grin

    Border Reiver call up, come on Mosstroopers, the debateable lands need You. Grin

    As a member of the United Kingdom, do i get a vote.

    BTW i would gladly join you in independance from the south and money pit London. But not with Salmond at the helm.

    Jamiegf
    Jamiegf  71167 forum posts Scotland
    16 Jun 2013 - 6:46 AM

    United we stand Divided we fall.
    The laws on voting conveniently altered to stroke one mans ego.

    mikehit
    mikehit  56463 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jun 2013 - 10:37 AM


    Quote: For a demolition of some of the myths in the Independence Referendum debate, see here:

    http://www.premier-pages.co.uk/scottish/

    Not demolished anything really...still all personal opinion.

    One question - if they lose the independence vote, will SNP shut the heck up???

    scottishphototours

    SNP never discussed independence in the years that Salmond wasn't leader. He came back and drove it... that tells its own story.

    Most Scots couldn't name 3 SNP MSP's outside the 3 former leaders. Again, that tells its own story.... a party of one man and two hangers-on, all 3 looking to make a name for themselves.

    Andy_Cundell
    16 Jun 2013 - 12:12 PM

    Scotland would be signing their own demise if they vote independence IMO, although, if that's what the Scottish public wan't, you can't stop change!

    The west coast of Scotland depends on the MOD, Navy and submarines for employment in Faslane/ Helensburgh. That's not a lot you may think, but if you consider all the servicemen and women, their families, the shops they shop at, the schools etc etc, the workforce in Helensburgh and surrounding areas, their families, need I go on? With the 'promises' of getting rid of nuclear submarines in Scotland to getting rid of the nuclear deterrent in Scotland (that's already backing off), Mr Salmon really can't win on this one. We will always have a nuclear deterrent so we have a seat at the 'big boys table' with the rest of the worlds nuclear states. At the moment, the Navy is planning a 'one base center of excellence' nuclear submarine fleet in Faslane. If Scotland doesn't want the deterrent, another base will have to be found and you can bet your life they will move ALL submarines out that area into a new place within England/ Wales. One base is cheaper than 2 to run and in today's climate, it's all about money. So, with potentially thousands of jobs going to be lost on the west coast, where will all the new jobs come from, tourism?

    Andy

    scottishphototours

    Yep, well said Andy...

    scrimmy
    scrimmy e2 Member 6365 forum postsscrimmy vcard Scotland5 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jun 2013 - 1:21 PM

    I have always thought the SNP's sole reason for existing was to promote Scottish independence. The electoral system used for the Scottish parliament was designed so that no one party could gain overall control but the SNP achieved that anyway. That tells it's own story. And the idea of being a citizen of a country without nuclear weapons quite appeals to me.

    Big Bri
    Big Bri  1315583 forum posts England
    16 Jun 2013 - 2:37 PM

    I didn't realise EPZ was now a free podium for people to air their politics......

    Big Bri
    Big Bri  1315583 forum posts England
    16 Jun 2013 - 2:41 PM

    (although thankfully our members are intelligent enough to not believe everything they read) Wink

    keith selmes
    16 Jun 2013 - 3:09 PM


    Quote: I didn't realise EPZ was now a free podium for people to air their politics......

    ever since they started the off topic forum ...

    strawman
    strawman  1022006 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jun 2013 - 4:16 PM

    To return to the original topic, it would have been good if the linked web site were an impartial and factually correct exploration of the issues, but sadly it is not and is rather one sided.

    I would love to see an open and honest discussion of the issues with some actual facts not what people wish to happen. Take even the simple topic of currency. This is the closest I found and it would look to show that if Scotland wants to be seen as an independent country then it has to take the consequences. I believe an independent Scotland would either have to start outside Europe or go through the entry conditions and join the Euro. If Scotland wants to keep the pound and the Euro opt out clauses it ought to stay in the UK. And if Scotland did join the EU, why would they negotiate any special terms. Compared to the EU the Scottish business market is tiny.

    The world is becoming even more global all the time and whilst I cherish and love my Scottish roots and history, I do not see a solution in breaking off from the UK and becoming an even smaller economic power in the world. It strikes me Salmond knows that the currency issue is a killer or he would have pronounced the solution. He is too clever a debater to let a solution there go past. He used to site the Irish financial situation inside Europe as being better is he still so certain? It is possible that for all of the UK the best solution is to stick together. But getting so few facts it is hard to judge and neither side are making a good fist of making a reasoned case.

    I would love to see some legal rulings and true financial statements not emotional arguments. And if it is for emotional and historic reasons, is everyone south of Perth not a Sassanach, so lets hive the Highlands off from the rest and let the far out Islands go back to the Scandinavian countries (taking mch of the oil and gas). Or are we bound by Sir Walter Scott’s romantic notion of what the Scottish past was?

    lemmy
    lemmy  71873 forum posts United Kingdom
    16 Jun 2013 - 5:17 PM


    Quote: For a demolition of some of the myths in the Independence Referendum debate, see here:

    It's a debate on the split up of a political union being run at the level of a primary school playground dispute. And the page the OP puts up is just one more piece of ignorant emotional trash of the sort being put out by both sides. I used to think that debate was at such a pathetic level in the UK because we were too lazy to take the time understand the facts. Actually, I have a horrible feeling it's at such a pathetic level because that's the best the products of our education system can manage.

    The Scot Nats have missed the main trick, anyway, by insisting that only Scots can vote. If they really wanted to guarantee independence they'd limit the vote to England and the English.

    Newdevonian
    16 Jun 2013 - 6:02 PM


    Quote: The Scot Nats have missed the main trick, anyway, by insisting that only Scots can vote. If they really wanted to guarantee independence they'd limit the vote to England and the English.

    GrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrin

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