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Forget electric cars - enough oil for 100 more years!

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Kako
Kako  8140 forum posts
16 Jul 2013 - 4:50 PM

brian1208, I said "cars that run on water..." deliberately to make the distinction between these, and those that are hydrogen powered using hydrogen stored in tanks, which is what most of the public think of when the mention of hydrogen power is discussed. As we both know,' hydrogen on demand' is a totally different game changer and has already been demonstrated. If the world's major car companies were forced by public demand to introduce these cars then you and I could be driving them within 5 years.

As for the oil companies, well its all documented in hundreds of books and articles over decades. I remember reading "The Seven Sisters" by Anthony Sampson decades ago, well before the
hackneyed phrase 'Conspiracy theorist' was invented detailing the massive corruption and downright criminal activity perpetrated by these companies as they bought and controlled entire countries. Nothing has changed except that thanks to the internet more people are aware of this now.

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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315234 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 4:57 PM


Quote: brian1208, I said "cars that run on water..." deliberately to make the distinction between these, and those that are hydrogen powered using hydrogen stored in tanks

Well the cars don`t actually run on the water, they run on the gas produced by the water, it can be done, but I don`t think we are quite there yet.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110247 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 5:28 PM


Quote: they run on the gas produced by the water, it can be done, but I don`t think we are quite there yet.


Quote: This article focuses on vehicles that claim to extract chemical potential energy directly from water. Water is fully oxidized hydrogen. Hydrogen itself is a high-energy, flammable substance, but its useful energy is released when water is formedówater will not burn. The process of electrolysis, discussed below, would split water into hydrogen and oxygen, but it takes as much energy to take apart a water molecule as was released when the hydrogen was oxidized to form water. In fact, some energy would be lost in converting water to hydrogen and then burning the hydrogen because some waste heat would always be produced in the conversions. Releasing chemical energy from water, in excess or in equal proportion to the energy required to facilitate such production, would therefore violate the first and/or second laws of thermodynamics.[5][6][7][8]

from

thermodynamics screws up many apparent wonderful sources of energy.

There is some hope that alternative processes, such as here are being looked at but are still some way off.

The big problem with the hydrogen economy is the distribution network. A colleague and I looked into this, at a fairly low level, as a blue sky project back in the '70's. There are many sources of cheap hydrogen, mainly the use of hydro-electric power at that time, but how to get it to where it was needed and then distribute it was the problem

More promising research could be in the field of algal produced hydrocarbons using photosynthesis as referenced here:

hydrocarbon from biomass

the benefits of this are that the distribution infra-structure already exists, its carbon neutral and it provides a source of hydrocarbon feedstock for many of the essential petro-chemical products that most forget we need (if indeed they ever knew of there existence)

dcash29
dcash29  81906 forum posts England
16 Jul 2013 - 5:43 PM


Quote: Brian 1208 I'd love to see your evidence for this, its the same as they were claiming that the Oilcos suppressed a "Water Burning Engine" back in the '70's

Brian, you'll have to do your own searching. In the 70's an engine technician at Ford re-engineered a Pinto engine to achieve 70-80 mpg.....disappeared?

Go through the past records of the Rochdale Observer and find ...Lancaster Uni. Professor from Rochdale develops oil alternative, when mixed with cold tea third world wagons and Skoda's could achieve double their life expectancy without wear. Again disappeared in the 80's.

Talking of water burning engines, where has the French car developed two years ago disappeared to?

Last Modified By dcash29 at 16 Jul 2013 - 5:45 PM
keithh
keithh e2 Member 1022919 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna31 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 6:00 PM

Disappeared from Google as well.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315234 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 7:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3GDjVskYIs

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110247 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 7:34 PM


Quote: Brian, you'll have to do your own searching

OK, here we go:

here

here

here

and more


here

here

but then

another view

and another

another

I do realise that the laws of science can never get in the way of belief (but it makes for an amusing discussion Grin )

Last Modified By brian1208 at 16 Jul 2013 - 7:35 PM
llareggub
llareggub  4684 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Jul 2013 - 7:47 PM


Quote:

(I do realise that the laws of science can never get in the way of belief (but it makes for an amusing discussion Grin )

Just to play devils advocate (for a laugh you understand), I don't believe that there are 'laws of science', are they not just the best understanding that we have at the present time and are they not continually refined?

There is always room for a pedant Wink But I agree that there is nothing like a belief to get in the way of demonstrable data!

keithh
keithh e2 Member 1022919 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna31 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 7:57 PM

It's the idea that these oil companies are going around bumping off anybody who invents a new type of engine or fuel.

Headline: Man in Wolverhampton invents water powered car.

Man in Wolverhampton: "No I didn't"

llareggub
llareggub  4684 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Jul 2013 - 8:05 PM


Quote: It's the idea that these oil companies are going around bumping off anybody who invents a new type of engine or fuel.

Headline: Man in Wolverhampton invents water powered car.

Man in Wolverhampton: "No I didn't"

Man in Wolverhampton would say 'nae I den't, wots a caaaah'!

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110247 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 8:25 PM


Quote: Just to play devils advocate (for a laugh you understand), I don't believe that there are 'laws of science', are they not just the best understanding that we have at the present time and are they not continually refined?


so very true, but its a useful short hand for summarising the current understanding of the so far working hypotheses that describe how nature works and which provide a framework for understanding things like engineering, technology etc

this explains it much better than wot I ever could Wink


Quote: While scientific theories and laws are both based on hypotheses, a scientific theory is an explanation of the observed phenomenon, while a scientific law is a description of an observed phenomenon.

Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion, for example, describe the motions of planets but do not provide an explanation for their movements.

Both scientific laws and theories are supported by a large body of empirical data; both help unify a particular field of scientific study; and both are widely accepted by the vast majority of scientists within a discipline.
- See more at: http://www.livescience.com/21457-what-is-a-law-in-science-definition-of-scientific-law.html#sthash.qo7RymmO.dpuf

Niknut
Niknut e2 Member 4566 forum postsNiknut vcard United Kingdom62 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 8:30 PM

Man in Wolverhampton would say 'nae I den't, wots a caaaah'!
[/quote]

The real pronunciation is......"No Are Day Chap !!!!!!, wee Doe No Wot Carsam anyroad !!!!", thers lots darn Noo'ampt'n Rowed thow !!!"

From a Wulfrunian.........GrinGrin

Last Modified By Niknut at 16 Jul 2013 - 8:30 PM
brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110247 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 8:32 PM


Quote: It's the idea that these oil companies are going around bumping off anybody who invents a new type of engine or fuel.

But, "Everybody knows its true" (tell a lie often enough and it becomes accepted truth Wink )

I find it more difficult to believe that people don't realise that the formation of water from hydrogen and oxygen is extremely exothermic, removing energy from the reaction and leaving water in such a low energy state that its incapable of being useful as an energy source, unless its returned to its higher energy components (by the application of external energy such as electricity, solar energy, chemical reaction (with or without catalysis) etc )

Not forgetting of course that if you raise water high enough physically it can have enormous potential energy, but apart from generating electricity to charge batteries or separate water into hydrogen and oxygen electrolytically, but it ain't no use in the fuel tank of a car!

there is no free lunch in Nature

Last Modified By brian1208 at 16 Jul 2013 - 8:36 PM
keithh
keithh e2 Member 1022919 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna31 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 8:37 PM


Quote: there is no free lunch in Nature

Unless you're a Kingfisher

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315234 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jul 2013 - 8:45 PM

I thought this looked fun, my old Murry only went at about 4 mph Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akaanteVCs4

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