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Freudian Slip?


jondf 8 2.7k
4 Dec 2012 3:49PM

Quote:to read into that sentence that he intends to let them revert to old ways in the future is really stretching an analysis of the word 'still'


Tax evasion is one element of the argument of which there're many more, although the quote sounds straightforward enough to me -

"We are still all in this together..." implies that we won't always be in this together, or that it won't always be that way. So who will be in it and who won't?

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mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
4 Dec 2012 5:21PM
This reminds me of Bill Clinton and his definition of the word 'is'...Tongue
I guess we wil have to agree to disagree on the defintion of 'still' and whether it can imply anything.
knownowt 3 24 United Kingdom
4 Dec 2012 7:09PM
For some small businesses"working the tax system" is the only way to make a living.
jondf 8 2.7k
4 Dec 2012 10:04PM

Quote:I guess we wil have to agree to disagree on the defintion of 'still' and whether it can imply anything.


The thread title states 'Freudian slip' in relation to the word you have a problem with. Call it conjecture if you like but I think that on that basis, the point made is clear enough ((( Tongue )))
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
4 Dec 2012 11:01PM
'Freudian slip' (which as far as I am aware is no longer recognised as a genuine psychological brain error) relies on one genuine word being replaced by another - so back to square one Wink
jondf 8 2.7k
5 Dec 2012 12:04AM

Quote:...no longer recognised as a genuine psychological brain error


Not necessarily true in the chancellor's case Wink



Quote:...relies on one genuine word being replaced by another


Not sure on that description. The dictionary has it as a subdued or 'suppressed' wish which, in the context of the quote, was how I saw it. As you say, we agree to disagree......why change the habits of a lifetime? Wink
Focus_Man 4 481 631 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2012 9:38AM

Quote:you have to earn 36k a year to be equal to a person on the new benefits of 26K a year.


You actually have to earn a lot more when you take into account the costs of travelling to work and in some cases it makes an enormous difference. Then there is the costs involved in working like divving up for retirements, birthdays, babies arriving, weddings etc. Apart from all that, if you need 26,000pa to live on, why is the state pension so low?

At our age we feel the cold more and with the planned freeze on our tax free allowance, the threat of removal of winter fuel allowance and bus passes, the extra green taxes coming on fuels, the lack of inflation equalling interest rates on our savings, the very low stock market level due to labour profligacy, so why are our incomes kept down?

I remember paying 15% on my mortgage and at that time pensioners receievd 15% interest on their savings,now we get diddly squat. In addition it loooks like we will be dead before this 'belt tightening' is over. So we will do all the suffering until we shuffle off our mortal coils, whilst the benefit classes still can enjoy 26,000 pa funded by my taxes until that happens.
thewilliam 6 4.8k
5 Dec 2012 9:54AM
State pension is so low because successive governments have been able to get away with it. The average oldie isn't criminally inclined and has lived a disciplined life so isn't likely to riot. My wife's state pension almost exactly covers our Council Tax.

The plight of old people will have to get even worse because there will be many more of us. This won't change until we get organised and become a threat to the ruling party.
Focus_Man 4 481 631 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2012 10:12AM

Quote: This won't change until we get organised and become a threat to the ruling party.


Jack Jones an ex Trade Union leader tried it but it failed miserably. Maybe because he was a socialist or perhaps even left of that but anyway you are dead right, but too many senior citizens are not able to gather for mass protests and have you ever tried to write to a government minister? They never get to read your mail because there is a department set up to intercept mail and minions answer by cutting and pasting ready made answers sometimes to questions you never asked. So he/she never gets to really ready your comments hence they misunderstand what the electorate wants. a prime example is a referendum on the EU. Look how long it has taken the government to understand slightly what has been asked for. There have been more than enough signatures on Epetitions, failed promises and even now, although a lot of Tory MPs understand the threat of UKIP, Posh Boy dave doesn't 'get it'.

You being correct then, how shoud the 'grey vote' go about organising successfully? The only option at present seems to be to vote UKIP but all that will achieve immediately is another profligate Labour government. By the time somebody does 'get it' we will all have passed away to the tax-free other world - unless of course theren is an ex labour Chencellor up there controlling things - perhaps the reason we never see angels down here is the great "Wing tax" scam going on up there, or perhaps an extortionate "travel tax" even, who knows.
collywobles 10 3.4k 9 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2012 10:38AM

Quote:You actually have to earn a lot more when you take into account the costs of travelling to work and in some cases it makes an enormous difference. Then there is the costs involved in working like divving up for retirements, birthdays, babies arriving, weddings etc. Apart from all that, if you need 26,000pa to live on, why is the state pension so low?


Yes of course traveling and working expenses come out of that.

Full state pension is about 900 for a married couple paid every 4 weeks, plus 200 fuel allowance in November. if you dont get that then we only have ourselves to blame, probably because we haven't paid enough NI thats a choice you make, as is a private pension. I know this isnt big bucks but how much more can we expect from the Government. We do live in a society that expects the government to take care of them be it unemployed, pensions and health, surely people have to take some responsibility for themselves. Also anyone on just basic government pension will also receive additional benefits, be it council tax or whatever so to complain about basic pension is not quite a true position. If you have a private pension then things are a little different.

Some might say its easy for me to make these statements as I sit on an inflation proof salary related pension after 45 years of service. But, in saying that I worked my butt off, I got educated, planned my career and sometimes (as my wife says) put my career before my family on occasions, sat in hotels, some crap, all over the world to have what we have now - and its paid off. So I have little sympathy for some people on benefits who wont get off their arse - one woman on the news this morning complaining she has little money after all the bills are paid out of her benefit saying that she has to take a taxi everywhere because she has no car................ DOH!
Jestertheclown 6 6.6k 242 England
5 Dec 2012 1:37PM

Quote:take a taxi everywhere because she has no car................

Yeah. I have that problem!

Seriously, do people like her need a car? In fact do half of the car owners in the world actually need them?
I don't drive because I've never wanted to. Instead. I rode motorbikes since I was old enough and am now reduced to walking everywhere, exactly as I did fifty or so years ago as a child.
I still get to where I need and if that place is too far away, I catch a bus or a train.
My father-in-law used to live and work in London. He had a car and paid to insure and tax it and so on. He used that car about once a month to go and visit his dear ol' Mum, who lived out of town and the only reason that he took it then was so that he could take her out somewhere.
The rest of the time, it sat there, gathering dust and rust.
mikehit e2
5 7.1k 11 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2012 2:14PM
Friends of mine live and work in London and they don't own cars because it is cheaper to hire a car whenever they want to go somewhere.
Focus_Man 4 481 631 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2012 2:30PM

Quote: Also anyone on just basic government pension will also receive additional benefits, be it council tax or whatever so to complain about basic pension is not quite a true position.


My wife and I get basic state pension and no additional benefits at all, because we have a private pension of course, but the problem is that those who failed to pay for any pension whatsoever get a bonus on top of the basic pension in the form of pension credit.

How does that do the country any good? How does that encourage people to save for their own old age? There should be the same basic state pension for all because I have paid for mine and also I have paid for theirs as well, so why should the recipient of my largesse get more than me from the kitty?

This is where the benefit system fails and has ended up as a career choice for many.

"But, in saying that I worked my butt off, I got educated, planned my career and sometimes (as my wife says) put my career before my family on occasions, sat in hotels, some crap, all over the world to have what we have now"

and so did many in the private sector but their rewards were never going to be an inflation proofed pension, they were too busy contributing to yours. The cost of an inflation proofed pension with retirement at 60 was put at 40% by Watson-Wyatt who were then the government's actuaries (They may still be I don't know). So whatever contribution is made by the employee and I know for a fact that many paid 0%, the balance up to 40% was apid for by the taxpayer. For police and firemen with an earlier retirement is was put at 45%.
jondf 8 2.7k
5 Dec 2012 9:29PM

Quote:This is where the benefit system fails and has ended up as a career choice for many.


The thought of countless thousands of people living permanently on benefits must be difficult for the many who've always worked and never claimed a penny in state support.

I know someone whose wife's family (three generations) have been or are nearly all long-term unemployed. The live a couple of hours drive away and he's got so sick of it that he now refuses to take his missus to see them. They've every ailment known to man and compare notes as to who's on the most medication. Yet how d'you break a cycle like that? Illness, low fitness levels, obesity, poor education. It could take generations of change to alter.
Focus_Man 4 481 631 United Kingdom
6 Dec 2012 8:55AM

Quote:Yet how d'you break a cycle like that? Illness, low fitness levels, obesity, poor education. It could take generations of change to alter.


I don't know the answer to that one, but I hope somebody can do something, not just for the finances of the country, but also for the benefit of those trapped in the situation whose health might otherwise improve if they were able or in some cases, chose to work. The malaise seems to be passed on down through generations, where the parents at the top of their benefit scale tell their kids, why work lads, when the country can keep you (Country mind, not the taxpayer) in good style.

The biggest problem from experience of friends, is if you have a mortgage. If you rent you can get housing benefit, council tax relief etc but if you 'own' your own home you cannot, not even the interest on the mortgage is covered. Seems odd to me but that is what happened to a relative of mine. The difference in what you can receive just on housing benefit and council tax benefit alone is enormous and is where the cap of 26,000pa comes in.

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