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    jondf
    jondf  82475 forum posts
    11 Dec 2012 - 10:18 AM

    He's profoundly sorry......but isn't the sin to be found out? Why did it happen at all?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/dec/11/hsbc-bank-us-money-laundering

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    11 Dec 2012 - 10:18 AM

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    lobsterboy
    lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014170 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
    11 Dec 2012 - 10:27 AM

    Well no one actually walks into a bank and says "hello I would like to launder some money"...
    The bank may well have failed to follow the correct KYC procedures, but they are dealig woth people who are trying to hide their activities.

    mikehit
    mikehit  56691 forum posts United Kingdom11 Constructive Critique Points
    11 Dec 2012 - 11:04 AM

    If I recall correctly one of the reports at the start of this case, HSBC were at best exhibiting wilful blindness (where the money was coming from etc) and at worst complicit, and the scale of the fines reflects their lack of due diligence. So it would seem they deserve everything they get.

    From the BBC website:

    Quote: The report alleged that:

    HSBC in the US had not treated its Mexican affiliate as high risk, despite the country's money laundering and drug trafficking challenges
    The Mexican bank had transported $7bn in US bank notes to HSBC in the US, more than any other Mexican bank, but had not considered that to be suspicious
    It had circumvented US safeguards designed to block transactions involving terrorists drug lords and rogue states, including allowing 25,000 transactions over seven years without disclosing their links to Iran
    Providing US dollars and banking services to some banks in Saudi Arabia despite their links to terrorist financing
    In less than four years it had cleared $290m in "obviously suspicious" US travellers' cheques for a Japanese bank, benefiting Russians who claimed to be in the used car business

    Last Modified By mikehit at 11 Dec 2012 - 11:05 AM
    lemmy
    lemmy  71943 forum posts United Kingdom
    11 Dec 2012 - 12:23 PM

    Somewhere along the line all morality was thrown out of the window by many industries and professionals. HSBC's executives are on fabulous salaries and bonuses based on bank profits so it is in their personal interests to not look too closely at the provenance of those profits.

    They have a big fine but if you or I were caught laundering drugs money, we'd go to prison. If you are a banker, your bank, ie the shareholders and customers pay a fine for you and you continue to collect bonuses as usual.

    Until some personal responsibility goes with these top jobs nothing will change radically.

    Interesting, for example, that after the complete and utter fiasco over the Virgin Rail contracts with a cost to the taxpayer of many millions, three civil servants were suspended. Now the public outcry has died down, they have been re-instated. Millions wasted by highly paid officials but no-one is to blame, no-one is responsible, no-one carries the can and at the end of the year no doubt their fat bonuses are still intact. Nice work if you can get it.

    Someone said that there are two kinds of money in the world, mine and other people's. It has never been more apparent.

    jondf
    jondf  82475 forum posts
    11 Dec 2012 - 12:23 PM

    It's of concern when you consider what might have happened had they not been found out. Business as usual?

    As the world becomes smaller, communication faster and moral principal looks to be faltering at a steady and sustained rate, we need leaders in all fields to set an example. But power and wealth are intervening in this process to the point where it appears to be acceptable to take money from criminals in the name of profit.

    thewilliam
    11 Dec 2012 - 12:25 PM

    It's one way for the US government to reduce its budget deficit!

    The $1.9billion would buy a lot of social care.

    mikehit
    mikehit  56691 forum posts United Kingdom11 Constructive Critique Points
    11 Dec 2012 - 12:39 PM


    Quote: Interesting, for example, that after the complete and utter fiasco over the Virgin Rail contracts with a cost to the taxpayer of many millions, three civil servants were suspended. Now the public outcry has died down, they have been re-instated.

    Isn't that the idea of 'suspension'? They are not sacked but removed from the picture until the evidence is collected to see where it went wrong, and if no blame can be aimed at them they are returned to their jobs. Exactly the same process that you or I would (should) go through.


    Quote: no-one carries the can and at the end of the year

    From what I heard of the report the ****-up was at ministerial level - but you are right in that no-one seems to be accountable

    jondf
    jondf  82475 forum posts
    11 Dec 2012 - 1:04 PM


    Quote: ....but you are right in that no-one seems to be accountable

    I bl00dy well am! (tax-payer) Tongue

    lemmy
    lemmy  71943 forum posts United Kingdom
    11 Dec 2012 - 1:11 PM


    Quote: evidence is collected to see where it went wrong, and if no blame can be aimed at them they are returned to their jobs. Exactly the same process that you or I would (should) go through.

    Yes, that's how it should be. But look at other fiascos like the NHS computer system. Again, no-one to blame. So hundreds of millions can be wasted and lost and no-one is to blame. It was just one of those things, then?

    What seems to happen is that the 'suspension' is long enough for the outcry to die down. Then the people are re-instated. I have no confidence at all that any investigation is done and even if it was and someone found to blame, that any sanctions would be taken against them. In the case of the trains fiasco, it seems that some civil servants were unable to interpret contracts or do their sums properly and that the minister was acting on inadequate advice. But hey, why should anyone tell us anything? It's only our money they are tipping down a pit.

    Top jobs now seem to carry more money and more privilege than ever before but responsibility is handed downwards - the top people seem to get away with 'I wasn't told' as an excuse.

    crookymonsta
    crookymonsta e2 Member 6704 forum postscrookymonsta vcard England10 Constructive Critique Points
    11 Dec 2012 - 2:00 PM

    I find it interesting that the banks never ask where the money is coming from when it is paid in but give you the third degree when you try to take it out. I few years ago I wanted to withdraw a little over 1000 to take on holiday and was asked numerous questions as to where it had come from - they only had to check my account to see it was my salary! The final straw was when they asked what I was going to spend it on in front of a whole load of people, so I said 'male prostitutes'. I got my money in no time from a very red faced cashier and left a bank full of laughter!
    Sandra

    cathal
    cathal  10492 forum posts Ireland4 Constructive Critique Points
    12 Dec 2012 - 12:29 PM

    Why do people still look at banks as some sort of revered institution?

    Banks are a business, pure and simple. Their key skill has been wrapping society around their own ways such that when they get it wrong the ordinary Joe bails them out. When you get it wrong, they clean you out! Just look at how the Irish taxpayer has been taken to the cleaners due to the (most likely ill-advised) decision to bail out the Irish bank failures. All down to the actions of a few greedy and criminally irresponsible individuals. Banks will do anything to make money. Don't expect the greed behind that to mean they will always remain inside the law.

    Banks are their to serve their own purposes pure and simple. That one bank has been caught out cleaning dirty money is no surprise. I bet more are at it too!

    jondf
    jondf  82475 forum posts
    14 Dec 2012 - 10:32 PM


    Quote: I find it interesting that the banks never ask where the money is coming from when it is paid in

    Lately I've found the staff at my bank to be over friendly to the point of being bloody nosey -

    Cashier (gushing): "And how are you today?"
    Me: "All right.....why, do I look ill?"
    Cashier:"No, not at all. And what are you doing today?"
    Me: "Taking you for lunch"

    .....being an ugly bu*ger, didn't hear another word Wink

    gcarth
    gcarth e2 Member 102293 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Dec 2012 - 3:30 PM


    Quote: Lately I've found the staff at my bank to be over friendly to the point of being bloody nosey -

    Cashier (gushing): "And how are you today?"
    Me: "All right.....why, do I look ill?"
    Cashier:"No, not at all. And what are you doing today?"
    Me: "Taking you for lunch"

    .....being an ugly bu*ger, didn't hear another word Wink

    LOL!


    Quote: Top jobs now seem to carry more money and more privilege than ever before but responsibility is handed downwards - the top people seem to get away with 'I wasn't told' as an excuse

    Absolutely! Top jobs also seem to carry more ****s than ever before!

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