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puertouk
puertouk  21010 forum posts United Kingdom17 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 1:04 PM


Quote: If I returned to the Uk I would not be entitled to go on any state benefit or the National Health for 3 months, yet I have worked in the UK for over 30 years!

..... and whats wrong with that. You chose to live abroad, so? Also I bet you claim your heating allowance like most ex pats do..........



I do not get heating allowance as I work as a photographer here on Tenerife! Before you start jumping on your high horse telling everyone I am some sort of sponger, take a look at yourself. No doubt you live relatively well, middle class and have voted Conservative all your working life. Some people are not as fortunate as yourself. Do you think someone should work for getting around £60 a week from the state? Being unemployed myself some years ago, I felt like I was the lowest of the low when I went to sign on. The terminally long unemployed should be found work, but with fair pay, not to be told you have to work in terrible conditions for very low pay.

Yes, it would not harm anyone who is unemployed to help with work around the area they live. How do these people get to this work? Collected by a council mini bus? If so, more expense for the council having to collect these people and purchasing the vehicle. Also, would the councils decide not employ as many people, as they would be a market of FREE LABOUR for them!
Quote: Why should you go to work and earn less than being on Social Security?

Ermmmmmmm, Its about self esteem, contibuting to society, making an effort, being proud of yourself and setting an example and a model to your children. Neither should you receive more money on benefits than someone doing a full weeks work on minimum wages, so lets cut benefits even more!

I think there should be a really low basic benefit and to receive more you have to earn it by working for a Charity.
I vote you in as Prime Minister Grin

Typical Conservative thinking. Take a look when the Conservatives come to power, unemployment soars with all the cutbacks they make! Why is the £ falling like a brick in the money markets? Why is the UK going to go into another recession? Even the Conservatives have addmitted they have made a mess of it.

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2 Feb 2013 - 1:04 PM

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thewilliam
2 Feb 2013 - 2:43 PM

When Mrs Thatcher came to power, it was about two years before government mismanagement had caused large scale riots. Cameron's regime achieved the rioting in just one year. Surely, that's progress?

LVanDhal
LVanDhal  1126 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 3:01 PM


Quote: therre will be a massive increase in tenants having to illegally sublet a room to cover the imposed

Or why not house share with a friend or welcome in a homeless person, again seems like a good idea if it leads to better use of existing house numbers.

Because the terms of social housing tenancy contracts forbid sub letting.
social housing is allocated to the tenant based on need at the time,
that need being defined as required bedrooms.
the problem has arisen due to the impossibility of accommodation through social housing with which to downsize once the required need for bedrooms changes, many people are stuck with an extra bedroom once say a child has grown up and moved out, or if a child moves to live with a parent who is not resident at the property, i e a divorced couple.
If a social housing tenant is found to be sub letting they are in breach of the tenancy agreement and they are Evicted.
I agree its only right that social housing is allocated on need, but it should also provide suitable accommodation once that need changes and there is the crux of the current problem, it cannot, so now tenants are being charged the bedroom tax.
For which the only workable solution is for a tenant to move out in to the private rented sector, with rents far higher than the social housing this will increase the need for housing benefit, as many working single people on minimum wage still need to claim some housing benefit to cover a private sector rent.
In my area a social housing rent is around 80-100 pounds per week, a one room in a private multi occupancy privately rented place is currently being advertised for 120-140 pounds per week, but it does include sky tv so !!!

LVanDhal
LVanDhal  1126 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 3:30 PM


Quote: Why should you go to work and earn less than being on Social Security?

Ermmmmmmm, Its about self esteem, contibuting to society, making an effort, being proud of yourself and setting an example and a model to your children. Neither should you receive more money on benefits than someone doing a full weeks work on minimum wages, so lets cut benefits even more!

I think there should be a really low basic benefit and to receive more you have to earn it by working for a Charity perhaps, or cutting the grass in your local park, or even sorting the clothes that the council collect etc etc but you have to do something to contribute to get benefits. Now some will come back and say there are NO jobs and of course that is true to some extent but you could still do something in return for benefits.

Social security benefits pay a legally defined amount that has been calculated as the smallest amount a person requires to sustain life, ie not starve to death, they are the basic minimum.
If anyone is working a full time week and still earning less than benefits they are not being paid the minimum wage which is illegal.
If they are working less than full time and earning less than benefits would pay they are entitled to make a claim and receive benefits to bring them to the level legally defined as the amount you should have to live on.
Currently workfare exists for the unemployed, it is mandatory work related activity, and means that the unemployed now have to work a 30 hour week with businesses such as Tesco for no pay whats so ever, in order to continue receiving unemployment benefit.
as well as working for no pay full time the unemployed are also required to search for paid employment.
As it is illegal to force someone to work for an employer for no pay, this mandatory work related activity as the government describes it,
is classed in legislation as "Trainning", that training can last as long as six months, and has been eagerly taken up by such "Providers" as the big supermarkets, high street chain stores, and the voluntary charity sector, who are able to report back to the DWP if a MWRA "trainee" is non compliant,
ie, late, absent, unwilling, and for which the non compliant MWRA benefit claimant can then be sanctioned, ie have all benefits stopped for a period of up to three years.
I know personally of someone currently working a 30 hour week in a shop stacking shelves for 53 pounds a week unemployment benefit,
same shop made paid staff redundant at Christmas yet took on the following week MWRA claimants.
Every little helps as the saying goes .

LVanDhal
LVanDhal  1126 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 4:02 PM


Quote:

Sick to death of the people on benefits pulling up outside the schools in brand new cars whilst me and my family struggle on, even though Ive worked since leaving school.

I could go on and on about this subject but I've got to go back to work to pay extortionate amount of tax to support the lazy sods (I know not everyone is lazy and it's circumstance stopping certain people getting jobs, those are the people I don't mind supporting).

It's amazing how some people are better off on benefits than in work.
Thats it I'm stopping now Sad

No one on benefits can afford a new car, nor can they obtain the credit to do so, or save the cash, so if you are seeing people who you genuinely believe are abusing the system you should report them to the DWP, though you could be in for a shock by finding out that those people are not as you thought in recite of benefits.
I constantly see and read of people who "Know" people who are living a supposedly better life on benefits, but what is always missing from the "Evidence" is any actual action on the part of the complainant other than to denigrate all benefit claimants.
So you have a job in which you pay extortionate amounts of Tax, Lucky you, and sorry about your Tax bill, I do genuinely sympathize, but its the government who take it from you, under penalty of imprisonment should you fail to pay the amount the government say you must.
If you feel your Taxes are unfair, then you should take it up with the Government, they are the ones telling you how they are spending it,
and i am sure the Government would be totally honest with you about there expenditure, wouldn't they ?.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1214381 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 6:43 PM


Quote: what annoys me is, young lads never did do those job


Quote: What do these local "employers" mean when they say they cannot find people willing to do these agricultural jobs

You have to ask yourself why.

I spent 48 weeks out of work and there is something called the benefit trap, once your in its very difficult to get out, especially if your renting.

There`s a provision in the bennefits system that they will continue paying your benefit for the first month your back in work provided you have been out of work for a certain period of time.

But they use a trick, for the first six months benefit is contribution based, at six months it is stopped and you then have to put a new claim in for earnings related bennefit.

When I got back into work the refused to help, with the trick I had not been recieving benefit long enough with a continous claim.

I got back into work, but the result was that I came very close to loosing my home due to bad debt.

Seriously its not suprising unemployed people think twice before taking on work, and there even less likely to except tempory seasonal work pulling carrots.

These migrant workers have it a whole lot easier than the rest of us, why do you think there prepared to take on seasonal work when us brits wont.

Its simple there here on Holiday, earn 4x the amount they can earn in there own countries, then when the work dries up they can hop on a bus back home,returning next season.

I`ve been there and have seen how it works.


Quote: Ermmmmmmm, Its about self esteem, contibuting to society, making an effort, being proud of yourself and setting an example and a model to your children. Neither should you receive more money on benefits than someone doing a full weeks work on minimum wages, so lets cut benefits even more

Some idiots haven`t got a clue Sad

Migrants put very little back in (far less than working Brits)and adding to the cripple education and NHS problems, sure they pay taxes but at what price.


Quote: Typical Conservative thinking. Take a look when the Conservatives come to power, unemployment soars with all the cutbacks they make! Why is the £ falling like a brick in the money markets? Why is the UK going to go into another recession? Even the Conservatives have addmitted they have made a mess of it

Typical views of someone who had probably voted labour most of there lives.

Remember when the conservatives got back in in 79, they turned this country around, ok they cocked up over the poll tax, but look at the damage due to the labour government.

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 2 Feb 2013 - 6:49 PM
chris.maddock
2 Feb 2013 - 8:13 PM


Quote: Seriously its not suprising unemployed people think twice before taking on work, and there even less likely to except tempory seasonal work pulling carrots.

That's very true - when I was made redundant I had taken out a loan to buy a reasonable car so I could get the work. I had an insurance policy which paid that because I was made redundant - but it only started paying out after 4 weeks of being unemployed, so I couldn't take temporary jobs unless they were long enough that I could save enough to cover the four weeks before the insurance would start paying again. As it happened, the first suitably long temporary job I found ended up being permanent. At the interview I'd said I was really after permanent work but that this temporary position was long enough that I could afford to take it. The personnel bod remembered that and offered me the next permanent post that came up, after all of a fortnight. I've been there over 25 years now and, hopefully, will be until I retire.


Quote: Remember when the conservatives got back in in 79, they turned this country around, ok they ****ed up over the poll tax,

The only cock up over that IMO was giving in. What they should have done was revisit it and put a safety net in place to assist the genuine "can't pays" whilst chasing the "could pay but won'ts".
The basic concept was a far fairer way of raising council funds than we got instead - why should one adult in a property pay at least 50% more than each of multiple adults in an identical property next door have to pay?

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1214381 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 8:20 PM


Quote: The only **** up over that IMO was giving in. What they should have done was revisit it and put a safety net in place to assist the genuine "can't pays" whilst chasing the "could pay but won'ts".
The basic concept was a far fairer way of raising council funds than we got instead - why should one adult in a property pay at least 50% more than each of multiple adults in an identical property next door have to pay?

I struggled finding the poll tax payements, I was young, just married and starting a family, I was not on a great wage, the wife was at home with a baby and could not work, but I was forced to pay both mine and her`s.

In principle I agreed with it, but I had friends still living at home who paid nothing, they got there parents to leave them off the forms Sad

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 2 Feb 2013 - 8:21 PM
lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1013935 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 9:00 PM

I have had to delete a fair few comments on this thread - please refrain from launching personal attacks on each other and instead argue the points raised.

MODERATOR POST
dos
dos  1 United Kingdom
2 Feb 2013 - 9:09 PM

Perfect website! Very friendly for Imigrants! Grin I'm so happy to be part of this community!

Emilis. Lithuanian... I'm sorry...Sad

dos
dos  1 United Kingdom
2 Feb 2013 - 9:12 PM


Quote: The problem is that the UK opened its doors to the Eastern block countries for them to come and work here, yet other EU countries did not. The trouble is, the UK is an easy way of life for all these migrants. In there own countries, its very hard, with low pay, poor health cover and poor housing conditions. In the Uk, its heaven sent. Free health cover, free this and that! They rent a 3 bedroom house and there's around 10 living in the place sharing the rent.


100% agree...
P.S Emilis, Lithuanian...

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1214381 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
2 Feb 2013 - 10:06 PM

Just tried to google for fruit picking holiday`s (the history of)

And all that pops up are links for work visa`s Sad

My mother used to tell me of the stories of her fruit picking holidays as a kid, it was once very common.

collywobles
3 Feb 2013 - 10:35 AM


Quote: My mother used to tell me of the stories of her fruit picking holidays as a kid, it was once very common.

Some of my fondest holiday memories were when as a young lad I used to go hop picking with my Grandmother Kate to a farm in Canterbury, Kent. All the children, my cousins, used to help pull the Hop Vines down and then load the sacks with the hops. Needless to say our concentration on this matter was about 5 minutes when we would then all run around the farm just playing. We lived in metal shacks for 6 weeks sleeping on straw filled matresses, cooking on open fires sipping a drop of Nans beer when she wasn't looking, what great happy memories.......................!

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 109963 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
3 Feb 2013 - 10:52 AM


Quote: Just tried to google for fruit picking holiday`s (the history of)

And all that pops up are links for work visa`s Sad



this is one of my greatest concerns about the internet, most of the information that is put there has been filtered in one way or another and much of our history has been excluded, so much will be lost for ever

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1214381 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
3 Feb 2013 - 4:29 PM


Quote: We lived in metal shacks for 6 weeks sleeping on straw filled matresses, cooking on open fires sipping a drop of Nans beer when she wasn't looking, what great happy memories.......................!

Just as my mother used to tell me, I guess most families could not afford a weeks holiday, they made do with day trips. These fruit picking working holidays were very handy. Dad stopped at home in did his day job, mum and the kids got away for six weeks, mum earned a bit of useful extra pin money and the kids had a great holiday, it pleased the farmers as well.

Not sure what killed it all off, the introduction of child benefit, cheap package holidays at Butlins or more mums entering the work place, I have no idea.

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