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triumphv8
triumphv8  7450 forum posts United Kingdom
7 Feb 2013 - 11:33 PM

But when you have companies like Tesco's directly recruiting people in Slovakia, and bringing them over busloads at a time , the wording of one advert is a drop in the ocean.

I'm sure the right to be able to work in any country in Europe was aimed at the rights of the individual, not to enable corporations to undercut local labour markets.

I know a few factories where management actively recruit EE workers, they are generally better educated and hard working than the dross they get sent by the job centre.

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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314996 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 Feb 2013 - 11:53 PM


Quote: I know a few factories where management actively recruit EE workers, they are generally better educated and hard working than the dross they get sent by the job centre

Funny there only taking the low paid jobs then, what they call a university education we call a college or six form education.

strawman
strawman  1022004 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 12:17 AM


Quote: Funny there only taking the low paid jobs then

The immigrants I know and work with are taking professionally qualified and equivalent paid jobs.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314996 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 12:22 AM

Sure some will be, the majority are taking the lower paid Jobs.

But people who claim they work harder are living in cloud cuckoo land, I`ve had enough of them working for me.

KevSB
KevSB  101406 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 8:12 AM


Quote: But people who claim they work harder are living in cloud cuckoo land

The fact is these sweeping statements are a case of myth becoming a fact, The youngsters of this country are not even given a chance now. I personally am not against them working here, what im against is sucsessive goverments failing to address the problem. Next year we will see another influx causing problems for all our over worked infrastructure.
I do wonder if is a cultural thing that we in general dont like to move away.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 9:15 AM


Quote:
Misinterpretation of reports like this (or plain irresponsible reporting of them) adds significantly to the amount of bull excrement that people spout on the interet about equality/policial correctness/health and safety/EU.

I read all about this and so perhaps the report should have majored on the boss who runs a construction company and who doesn't speak a word of English, hence his need for Polish speaking workers. If he cannot really understand English, then for my money he should not be running a construction company in the UK, where there is a great need to understand our H&S laws and in particular the Construction (Design & Management) Regulations (Known as CDM). How can he comply if he can't read them? Non-compliance with CDM meets with prosecution. Health & Safety statutory sineage is written in Englisy only and rightly so. That being the case, how can the boss post these statutory signs and expect his workforce to understand then and thereby keep themselves safe? Make the boss learn English rather than deny loads of skilled and unskilled jobs to our population!

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 8 Feb 2013 - 9:19 AM
Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 9:45 AM

Further to my comment above - breakfast intervened - it is also contrary to statutory legislation for such work to be awarded to non English speakers. The employer has to be satisfied about all HSE legislation before awarding the work. How van he be if he doesn't speak Polish either?

At the quotation stage, bidders have to provide what is called a "pre Construction Health & safety Plan". This includes Risk assessments of known hazards at that stage. Now if that is written in Polish, then the employer cannot satisfy himself as to the integrity of the bidder. Similarly, the Non English speaker, will not have been able to understand the documents issued by the the employer at the bidding stage.

The whole thing is crazy. Do we amend legislation to include multi-language documentation for construction sites (Blimey there wouldn't be enough Herras fencing on which to post the stuff) or just get out of the EU and let our own rules stand? ie ban and such advert and leave all signs in English, no multiple language documentation. We would save a fortune.

thewilliam
8 Feb 2013 - 9:50 AM

I can see why our government is so anxious to cut welfare benefits. Many EU countries impose a qualification period before an immigrant can claim benefits but our government, in its wisdom, has chosen not to do so.

My daughter's partner has recently experienced our unemployment system and has seem plenty of ads at the Job Centre where fluency in Polish has been an essential requirement for work on a production line. Some ads are actually written in Polish and some offer less than the minimum wage.

Some cities already have enough Poles to send a member to the Polish parliament and some 20 million have already left their country. The business plan of one major supermarket estimated the UK population at 80 million and I'd accept this figure is probably accurate and a lot more reliable than the census figure. The government has already admitted that it has no idea how many illegal immigrants have entered the UK. Would the figure of 20 million "lost" immigrant be implausible?

collywobles
8 Feb 2013 - 10:02 AM


Quote: but our government, in its wisdom, has chosen not to do so.

Imigrants cannot go straight into the benefit system, its a falasy to think so and not correct. This is the kind of statement that UKIP and the BNP put about.


Quote: Would the figure of 20 million "lost" immigrant be implausible?

This is also the kind of ridiculous statement that even the poster if he had any common sense could see is not possible when the UK population is about 58 million. On his reconing nearly half the population would be immigrants - now does that sound sensible to you?

Last Modified By collywobles at 8 Feb 2013 - 10:08 AM
Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 10:18 AM


Quote: Imigrants cannot go straight into the benefit system, its a falasy to think so and not correct. This is the kind of statement that UKIP and the BNP put about.


Don't denigate statements made by UKIP; as members ie MEPs in the EU they know a lot more than we do about such matters and if you remember recently a high court judge, basing a ruling on EU law, stated that councils have a duty to house immigrants immediately so that their "Human Rights are not violated". Such housing and the free Council tax etc are benefits.

So is is not a falasy nor a fallacy.

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 8 Feb 2013 - 10:19 AM
collywobles
8 Feb 2013 - 10:41 AM


Quote: fallacy.

Thank you.

A year or so ago my friend told me that in Southend on Sea they were buying s/h cars for Polish imigrants so they could go find jobs, apprently this saved the council from having to pay their taxi fares.--- I guess you would believe this too!

KevSB
KevSB  101406 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 12:21 PM


Quote: Imigrants cannot go straight into the benefit system, its a falasy to think so and not correct. This is the kind of statement that UKIP and the BNP put about




Benefits available for UK and EU Citizens

All EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who have the right to work in the UK are eligible to the same benefits as unemployed people from the UK:
•Jobseeker's Allowance
•Income Support
•Housing Benefit
•Council Tax benefit
•Childcare Benefit


http://uk.angloinfo.com/working/unemployment/

Last Modified By KevSB at 8 Feb 2013 - 12:23 PM
strawman
strawman  1022004 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 12:45 PM

And a couple of lines from just under that quote.

Quote: Jobseekers from Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia:

Once citizens from the above European countries have been registered on the Worker Registration Scheme (WRS) for 12 months, they are eligible for all the benefits available to other European nations.

Jobseekers from Bulgaria and Romania:

Once citizens from the above European countries have been registered on the Worker Authorisation Scheme (WAS) for 12 months, they are eligible for all the benefits available to other European nations.

Is the following not the vital bit


Quote: All EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who have the right to work in the UK

So as of nw to my knowledge there are limitts. It all depends what the 2014 legislation states. You will find that countries like Germany wil lalso have an interest in the 2014 situation so perhaps by working wit hother countries we could resolve this issue.......

Last Modified By strawman at 8 Feb 2013 - 12:50 PM
KevSB
KevSB  101406 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
8 Feb 2013 - 12:50 PM


Quote: And a couple of lines from just under that quote.
Jobseekers from Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia:

Once citizens from the above European countries have been registered on the Worker Registration Scheme (WRS) for 12 months, they are eligible for all the benefits available to other European nations.

Jobseekers from Bulgaria and Romania:

Once citizens from the above European countries have been registered on the Worker Authorisation Scheme (WAS) for 12 months, they are eligible for all the benefits available to other European nations.

My understanding of that statement is that they have to wait for 12 months to become eligible for europien schemes, not our own as we did not sign that agreement


On checking the Worker registration website we find the following

The Worker Registration Scheme closed on 30 April 2011.

If you are a national of the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia or Slovenia, you do not need to obtain our permission before you can work in the UK.

Last Modified By KevSB at 8 Feb 2013 - 12:54 PM

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