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Toonman
Toonman  71420 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
27 Feb 2010 - 7:22 AM

Monkey who has rattled your cage? Wink Its the technoligy that is at fault. Pedo's now have the opportunity to take photo's and distribute them without any other party involed. In the old days perv's would have to go to dodgy porn shops for 'under the counter'stuff. They have now hijacked our cameras and computers and we are branded under their filth by the paronoid powers. I regularly put my camera away when in public and children are present it's the horrrible world we live in

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monkeygrip
27 Feb 2010 - 8:39 AM

Sorry if my rant was a bit strong Toonman Smile but its accepting that it is the terrible world we live that contributes to this problem. There will always be the twisted element of society weather we ban cameras from shopping centres or not.

If we let the 0.001% of the population who are pervs make the rest of us over paranoid about taking photos where will it end.

I was challenged by a bloke in a park once I shouted at him if I was pervert I wouldn't be waving 5 grands worth of kit about attracting attention would I he didn't continue the argument lol.

Last Modified By monkeygrip at 27 Feb 2010 - 8:40 AM
collywobles
27 Feb 2010 - 8:44 AM


Quote: Its the technoligy that is at fault. Pedo's now have the opportunity to take photo's and distribute them without any other party involed

Thats correct - the big attitude change is the simplicity and the ability and speed that images can sent around the world in a matter of minutes has put a new light on an old problem. Colin

Just Jas
Just Jas  1225727 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Feb 2010 - 12:23 PM


Quote: But what if it wasn't his child? and if someone was shooting your child would you still be banging on about photographers rights?

This is the dilemma.

The more that our civil liberties are abused by some, then the more of them we will lose as a result.

Last Modified By Just Jas at 27 Feb 2010 - 12:24 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139390 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
27 Feb 2010 - 1:12 PM

As I said earlier, paedo-paranoia is a big seller for the media, so you can be sure they will bang on about it on the slightest pretext.

The amount of child abuse that goes on is probably no greater than it was decades/centuries ago. But we are all more aware of it now.

It used to be witches..............

Xiaoli
Xiaoli  5661 forum posts South Africa14 Constructive Critique Points
27 Feb 2010 - 10:30 PM


Quote: As I said earlier, paedo-paranoia is a big seller for the media, so you can be sure they will bang on about it on the slightest pretext.

The amount of child abuse that goes on is probably no greater than it was decades/centuries ago. But we are all more aware of it now.

It used to be witches..............

And being aware is wrong? I am sorry but I absolutely do not agree that there is 'about the same' as in years gone by - that it happened yes absolutely but with increased population, increased moral laxity, the more sexualised images are pushed at us all the time etc etc the more things are likely to happen. Pornography has the effect of desensitizing people to sexual images so they have to look for increasingly hard core stuff ...oh rather I just say nothing because it is idiotic statements like this that make my blood boil - bring on the awareness, bring on the alert public and bring on people who ask questions, stick their nose in when they hear something that makes them wonder just what is going on and not just for incidents in public ... and not just for people. For all the animals, children, women and elderly people who are being abused in some way ... bring on the people who ask, who investigate, who bring things out into the open.

strawman
strawman  1021999 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
27 Feb 2010 - 11:30 PM

Xiaoli please stop and think, as I think you have been caught in some of the perverted thinking. How is taking a photo of a child in a public place with no one touching the child of any concern or harm. The strange perversion that has occurred and been accepted by many is that taking a photo of a child is in some way wrong.

Being aware of child abuse is important, so list for me the signs you should look for, and point out where taking pictures of everyday life with a child feature?

I agree there is too much sexualisation of children and I can well believe that de-sensitisation occurs with respect to pornographic and violent images. So lets clamp down on that.

But security guards challenging an adult taking photo's of a fully dressed kid in the open? Having done a bit of child protection and spoken to experts in the field they told me that most offences occur where the child knows the person. A lot are from the immediate family. Many are by people who groom the child, i.e. they work their way bit by bit into the child's life and its trust. In short the actual offence seldom occurs in the middle of the shopping centre.

It comforts us to think that it is the deviant stranger from the outside, but sadly it is most often the deviant person that is well known to the child and the family.

Yes child porn photo's are swapped, but they are not images taken in the high street.

Target the offensive pictures and behaviours. By concentrating as the popular press are they are taking the heat off the real offenders. Ironic no????????

Last Modified By strawman at 27 Feb 2010 - 11:31 PM
strawman
strawman  1021999 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
27 Feb 2010 - 11:45 PM

The evidence to support why not worrying about child photography in public spaces where the child is appropriatley dressed etc.

Quote: While news stories of sexual predators are scary, what is even more frightening is that sexual abuse usually occurs at the hands of someone the child knows and should be able to trustómost often close relatives. And contrary to what many believe, itís not just girls who are at risk. Boys and girls both suffer from sexual abuse. In fact, sexual abuse of boys may be under reported due to shame and stigma.

Link if you are interested

And another

Child abuse is terrible, but lets focus on where the abuse is happening.

Last Modified By strawman at 27 Feb 2010 - 11:45 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139390 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
28 Feb 2010 - 2:29 AM

I've said it before and I'll say it again: a high proportion (some protection organisations suggest 70%+) of child abuse, including sexual abuse, takes place within the home and not at the hands of strangers.

A fair degree of child abuse, again including sexual, is committed by children. There have been incidents of child-on-child sexual abuse videoed by kids on their mobile phones and later uploaded to video hosting sites.

Sobering thoughts indeed. But many people feel uncomfortable about contemplating these uneasy facts. It is so much easier, isn't it, to point at the unrelated adult 'bogeyman'..... with a camera! The dirty old man in a mac, so to speak - although the problems may lie a lot closer to home.

Xiaoli
Xiaoli  5661 forum posts South Africa14 Constructive Critique Points
28 Feb 2010 - 8:19 AM

Firstly I am NOT affected by media hype - I take everything the press says with not just a pinch of salt but a tub!!! I do not read sensationalist/alarmist/panicky news - in fact rarely read or watch any news but this is another story.

However this does not mean I am ignorant of the problem.

In my home town over 800 children go missing every year. These are children who are trafficked. I personally knew some one whose child was one of these children - he and a carload of other children were rescued because his aunt just happened to be at a filling station when they pulled up and her nephew called out to her and she took all the kids out of the vehicle while the driver was inside the shop. There were 10 of them between 8 and 12 years old. They had all been abducted from the street or shops or outside school.

In another incident my friend's daughters were walking home from school and a car pulled up alongside them and attempted to drag the younger girl into the car. Fortunately her sister had the presence of mind to grab her sister's legs and pull her back out!

At my daughter's primary school several years ago now a known sex offender sat in his car outside the school for several weeks every day. The school's response? To tell the parents to please be more careful! HELLO! What about the several hours day while my child was in the care of the school? They had NO policy in place for caring for children after the school bell rang should a need arise in the event of a lift being late, or in one incident where a child was left behind by the aftercare center.

In another incident I found 2 children aged 6/7 years waiting outside a public library after 6pm in the evening - no-one had picked them up from school. No-one stopped in more than 6 hours since their class let out to find why they were there! Fortunately there just happened to be a concert at the school that evening and I was able to walk them back to the school and find a teacher - give them an earful - and get them to safety.

I myself was the 'victim' of an attempt by a photographer at carnival to take 'photos' fortunately I was savvy enough to think 'If he wants photos of people enjoying themselves why am I bending over so he can see down my shirt?' Unfortunately I was not savvy enough to go report him!

So while most abuse may take place with people who are known to the victims - my point is thus - do not knock people for being aware and a little hyperawareness is not a bad thing. As a parent personally I would MUCH rather be asked a few pointed questions in error than have people do NOTHING!

If my neighbour is beating his dog, or an old age home is abusing it's residents, if a child or woman is being abused and some one hears something, or sees something I WANT them to speak up, to call some one. The 'I don't want to be involved' or 'I don't want to interfere' nonsense has to stop. And as for banging on about photographers rights? Well then ... I'm sorry but when on this very site there are images of woman in compromised positions taken in public so-called 'innocently' and labelled 'street' photography and when there are photos that if they were published 20 years ago unquestionably would have been deemed pornographic and people debate whether or not that is now adult content - I think photographers need to look at the grey areas in their moral code - clean their own house and THEN moan about their civil rights.

Last Modified By Xiaoli at 28 Feb 2010 - 8:21 AM
Jestertheclown
28 Feb 2010 - 11:12 AM

Xiaoli,
With all due respect for your situation and where you live, we're talking about Sunderland, England here, in a shopping mall.
I know children get abducted in England from time to time as they do everywhere but if 800 disappeared in Sunderland in a year we'd probably notice.
It seems to me that you're reading more into this incident than actually exists.
There's really no comparison between what's going on in South Africa and an over-zealous security man in Sunderland.
Jester.

cantona43
cantona43 e2 Member 8862 forum postscantona43 vcard England4 Constructive Critique Points
28 Feb 2010 - 12:45 PM

How long before camera's in mobile phones will be banned and carrying a camera in public will become an offence, it is becoming so ridiculous when you cannot take a snapshot in public of your own child, I blame media hype
Neil

Overread
Overread  63746 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
28 Feb 2010 - 2:00 PM

The daft thing is whilst security run around after adults with cameras the kids and teens themselves will be happily snapping away with mobile phones, purse cameras, pocket cameras and heck even the little video game machines (the nintendo DS) has alittle camera.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139390 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
28 Feb 2010 - 2:12 PM

Before long practically everything will have a camera built in. Photography is getting more widespread, not less!

ecowarrior
4 Mar 2010 - 9:19 PM

This is a sad sad world when a father can't take a picture of his kid, without suspicion. By all means be on the lookout, but for chrissakes!! Hell yeh, of course there are bad people in the world, but rather than accept that 99% of us are normal humans, it's assumed that 100% of us are a threat now. Drives me nuts.

On a similar subject, my wife works at a kids nursery and recently was told she couldn't use the term "Brainstorm". You have to use "Thought shower" instead. Why? Because apparently it insults people with epilepsy.

Seriously???

1. Who suddenly decided that Brainstorm related to epilepsy, and...
2. Did anybody ask those who SUFFER from epilepsy? Cos I'm sure almost to a man (or woman), they sure as hell don't care.

This whole country has gone mad, for the sake of a few individuals who think THEY can make the rules as they see fit.

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