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Health and Safety at Weddings !

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779HOB
779HOB  21027 forum posts United Kingdom
25 Oct 2013 - 12:52 PM


Quote: Very little opportunities for such candid pictures to be taken even if they were permitted

They would have been permitted, public road I am guessing, although the barriers might have been an issue! I covering a fair next week and expect to be taking lots of snaps of kids having a good time and I seriously doubt I will get any hassle from anyone.

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25 Oct 2013 - 12:52 PM

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thewilliam
25 Oct 2013 - 2:46 PM

Do readers think that our citizens are gullible enough to believe that a CRB gives children any protection? Jimmy Savile wasn't "caught" until after he'd died!

mikehit
mikehit  56681 forum posts United Kingdom11 Constructive Critique Points
25 Oct 2013 - 3:00 PM

It must give some protection given that there were incidences of known sex offenders working with groups such as scouts/guides.
Whether the time, energy and cost of the process is a payoff is open to opinion (IMO it is worth it). The problem came when bureaucrats applied it in areas it was never intended or, as has been mentioned people misunderstood its intention.

Last Modified By mikehit at 25 Oct 2013 - 3:00 PM
Evertonian
26 Oct 2013 - 9:50 AM


Quote: Very little opportunities for such candid pictures to be taken even if they were permitted

They would have been permitted, public road I am guessing, although the barriers might have been an issue! I covering a fair next week and expect to be taking lots of snaps of kids having a good time and I seriously doubt I will get any hassle from anyone.

I sincerely hope you are right, but one does read about zealous members of the public who complain to the police and they seem to over react as well causing untold grief all round. Good luck and be sure to let us know how you get on please.

779HOB
779HOB  21027 forum posts United Kingdom
26 Oct 2013 - 5:39 PM


Quote: Good luck and be sure to let us know how you get on please.

I know it will be fine - done it lots of time there and other places.

779HOB
779HOB  21027 forum posts United Kingdom
3 Nov 2013 - 8:54 AM


Quote: let us know how you get on please.

Without any problems at all. There's a few of kids here (link to my site) Used a 50mm and 35mm lens so no snipping with a 200. Really had no problems from parents, other adults or police. I took some last night at the Bridgwater Carival too, again, no problems.

karl
karl Site Moderator 11586 forum posts United Kingdom
2 Jan 2014 - 3:07 PM


Quote:
S. CRB Why? For what purpose?
A. Would have thought that was obvious. Dealing with children.


Very late to this thread, but there's no such thing as a CRB check any more, it's a DBS check and they are only required if you'll be working unsupervised with children 4 or more times a month. So very few people actually require them now.

Other then that you can't perform a CRB check upon yourself, they are only valid for the organisation performing the check e.g. Your local school has their LEA carry out a DBS check for photographing the children, this check is only valid for that purpose - you couldn't then use it for volunteering at Scouts etc. They are also only valid for that point in time (yes yes, I know technically they last 2 years) due to the nature of it being a records check.

thewilliam
5 Jan 2014 - 2:08 PM

If we get back to the original point of the thread which is Elfin Safety at weddings, we do need to do a thorough Risk Assessment, preferably written.

Under the heading "Paedophile hazards to children of guests", we just state that none of the photographers are likely to be left unsupervised in the presence of minors, so no action needs to be taken.

One advantage of a proper written Risk Assessment is that:-

1. It comes in very useful when defending a claim.
2. There should be a reduced chance of an accident because it makes the photographer think about possible hazards and fewer risks will be taken.

There have been some recent sightings of commonsense in the Elfin Safety world!

wricha1407
5 Jan 2014 - 11:20 PM

Like the cavalry arriving after most of the action is over, I will however will throw in a couple of thoughts.

Whilst I’ve never snapped a Wedding (bar one) I salute those who do as it is definitely a skill and one I don’t possess. But l think some of the points raised through the thread are valid.

Whilst I find health and safety, copyright knowledge, risk assessments, insurance, CRB (DBS) cumbersome, I think it is useful for anyone who wants to earn from photography to consider.

I know some have stated that some of the self-regulatory ideas mentioned might not be useful but perhaps I have just been unlucky in some of the work I’ve been offered and tendered for?

A recent example which is not a rarity - I was asked to supply or sign
1. Criminal disclosure – CRB/DBS check.
And to clarify a DBS check is to check if you have convictions – not just for work with children or vulnerable adults. A DBS is a requirement for many occupations, locksmiths, taxi drivers, banking institutions, civil servants, hundreds of roles and occasionally photographers

2. References – fair point I thought
3. Relevant examples of work – OK fair point.

4. Intellectual property rights
It pays to have an awareness of copyright – there are some photographers who think why bother? But, wait till you have pages of ‘clauses of intellectual property and copyright laid out in front of you

5. Copy of public liability and insurance certificates
6. Licences – e.g. compliance of Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 - Disturbing or taking animals listed in Schedule 5 and Photographing birds at the nest Schedule 1.
7. Permission slips/Release forms …… e.g. Photographic release form, Photographic property release form, Model release form, Children’s photographic consent form
8. Lone Working Practices (WTF ?) Having to justify how carting a few lenses, tripod, around complies with the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 (HSW Act) and the Management of Health and Safety at Work (MHSW) Regulations 1999.

Let’s not even go anywhere near the Sustainability requirements .

Suffice to say I don’t think it would do any harm for a photographer to have a DBS certificate , a rudimentary knowledge of copyright ……and a high vis waistcoat in his camera bag……..

strawman
strawman  1022010 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
5 Jan 2014 - 11:51 PM


Quote: Do readers think that our citizens are gullible enough to believe that a CRB gives children any protection? Jimmy Savile wasn't "caught" until after he'd died!

the reason I was given for the CRB being introduced was it gave a chance to prevent people who had a history of abusing children from being given an unsuitable role again.

Take a good example, a School needs a janitor. with the CRB/DBS at least you can go check out if the person has a history of child abuse. Look at the hysteria in the media when a person who has offended ends up working with kids again. It is a help, along with other measures. I do not believe it was ever intended to be a full solution on its own. And in that light, for people who will regularly be working with Children I think it sensible.

keithh
keithh e2 Member 1023173 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna33 Constructive Critique Points
6 Jan 2014 - 5:29 AM

You cannot obtain a DBS check on yourself, it has to be obtained by an employer.

thewilliam
6 Jan 2014 - 11:35 AM


Quote: You cannot obtain a DBS check on yourself, it has to be obtained by an employer.

And that Disclosure is valid only for one context. Our next door neighbour has EIGHT Disclosures. When a boy from Devon, 5 miles away, wanted to join the football training group that he runs, nothing could be happen until he had an additional Disclosure that covered members of Devon Scouts.

wricha1407
6 Jan 2014 - 1:35 PM

Blimey!!! Eight Disclosures is certainly over kill. Let’s hope the registered bodies forked out for that. Because as anyone can apply for a basic Disclosure check in their own name at £25 a time that would work out expensive .

Evertonian
6 Jan 2014 - 2:31 PM


Quote:

8. Lone Working Practices (WTF ?) Having to justify how carting a few lenses, tripod, around complies with the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 (HSW Act) and the Management of Health and Safety at Work (MHSW) Regulations 1999.



This might look a little crazy but you have to imagine, like I did once, a demolition site prepared ready for work to start and the customer wanting a series of pictures showing progress. OK liaison is required with the Site Manager once work has commenced, together with a 100% knowledge of the demolition process as well as all CDM requirements. But look at the lone worker situation, the job prepared ready for work but no demolition team on site at this time. It is not about justifying carrying a few lenses about, it is about the fact that you could become injured whilst taking your pictures and you have to assess the risk of you being discovered should something as drastic as that befall you with nobody else around in a fairly large fenced off secure area.

I assessed the risk and arranged to telephone the security gate house every 10mins with a telephone answer required. (Part of the outcome was to expect that from the client.) That call was to assure the security guys that I was Ok. Client responsibility as well as answering was to organise a search party should they not receive my call. That is what is required in a 'lone worker' situation.

H&S does often get 'overkill' by inexperienced Safety Managers and operatives, but the regulations are there to protect and to ensure the safety of workers of all ranks.

I have to say I cannot see the necessity for that whilst taking photographs at a wedding.

Last Modified By Evertonian at 6 Jan 2014 - 2:33 PM
keithh
keithh e2 Member 1023173 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna33 Constructive Critique Points
6 Jan 2014 - 5:34 PM

Eight DBS certs is a bit silly, especially when they are valid across organisations and check able online.

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