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Graywolf
Graywolf  6964 forum posts United Kingdom
5 Aug 2007 - 5:51 PM

"The price of democracy is eternal vigilance".

It is rare indeed for a government to relinquish powers gained by a previous administration even when they were gained in the face of their own opposition.

Each new power that an administration wishes to give itself should be treated with the utmost circumspection, cynicism and detailed scrutiny, because sure as hell when the trouble is past, they won't want to give it up. You can bet your sweet life there will be another crisis around the corner preservation from which can only be assured by retaining those powers, AND ADDING A FEW OTHERS.

Remember income tax. Temporary measure to pay for the Napoleonic Wars. Admittedly rescinded for a while afterwards but oh how hastily re-instated.

Everything ANY government does should be challenged, that's the job of the opposition and every citizen!!

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5 Aug 2007 - 5:51 PM

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lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1013937 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
5 Aug 2007 - 6:14 PM


Quote: Seriously though, If you have nothing to hide, Whats the problem......!

and why shouldn't I have something to hide?

Graywolf
Graywolf  6964 forum posts United Kingdom
5 Aug 2007 - 8:23 PM

You can never trust ANY government completely. The value of democracy is that when they begin to overreach themselves we can vote them out.

as Churchill said

democracy is just the least worse system,

and

The price of that democracy is eternal vigilance.

mad-dogs
mad-dogs  112201 forum posts England
5 Aug 2007 - 8:27 PM

Sleep through Democracy, wake in Tyrany

Last Modified By mad-dogs at 5 Aug 2007 - 8:28 PM
SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
5 Aug 2007 - 8:30 PM


Quote: when they begin to overreach themselves we can vote them out

Always assuming of course that large percentages of the voting public haven't been disenfranchised - I'm remembering states like Florida ..

And look at this apathetic country - the UK - we have a system whereby a small fraction of the country will turn out to vote, and the first past the winning post gets the prize even though the relevant votes will be a fraction of that small fraction. There again, I guess it helps to have a disinterested, apathetic voting public ... rolls eyes

macroman
macroman  1115312 forum posts England
5 Aug 2007 - 8:34 PM

'If you've nothing to hide.....................etc.


Must be the daftest statement ever.

fauxtography
5 Aug 2007 - 8:41 PM


Quote: Must be the daftest statement ever.

nah, always thought that was "this wont hurt a bit...."

cmawson
cmawson  10270 forum posts United Kingdom
5 Aug 2007 - 9:24 PM

Sadly it could all be too late if the US citizens & other countries don't do something very soon.

The problem is the puppet masters of the neo-cons, such as Karl Rove & **** Cheney, get them ousted (not easy) then things may be better.

World domination can be economically justified & not just by using military force.

Last Modified By cmawson at 5 Aug 2007 - 9:26 PM
gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 92218 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Aug 2007 - 11:43 AM


Quote: Everything ANY government does should be challenged, that's the job of the opposition and every citizen!!

Too bloody right!
Where are all the angry young men and women?
Only a few commentators are suitably enraged and appalled at the state of civil liberties and world affairs: People like John Pilger; Robert Fisk; Harold Pinter; Tony Benn; Green Party members like Derek Wall; Caroline Lucas; Sian Berry. Even their passionate pleas for sanity are ignored by the sycophantic boot lickers to the Establishment in the media.
How often does the BBC broadcast the views of people like the above? Rarely if at all.
We will never have anything resembling civil liberties until we have a media that is free from Establishment bias and does not have to answer to advertisers or politicians.
Therefore, as neither civil liberties nor real democracy in general is likely to happen in the near future, for the reasons above, I think we have to wake up from our dream world and "start from the bottom up". We need to pull together; forget the rhetoric of the politicians - don't wait for them - they clearly don't know what is best for us. It's our duty to tell them...and remind them that they are there to serve us. Let's start to value people more than products otherwise big business and politicians will always have the upper hand.
By Jove, I feel better now!

Garth

mdpontin
mdpontin  96016 forum posts Scotland
6 Aug 2007 - 11:59 AM

Well said, Garth. I believe that apathy is a serious problem in this country. Most people seem to just shrug and accept whatever new erosion of their freedom is foisted upon them. Those who view these trends with growing concern frequently feel powerless to do anything about it. Either way, opposition is largely impotent. The purpose of opposition in a democracy is to enforce scrutiny and accountability. Without those, the system is dangerously unbalanced.

Doug

Last Modified By mdpontin at 6 Aug 2007 - 11:59 AM
Graywolf
Graywolf  6964 forum posts United Kingdom
6 Aug 2007 - 12:51 PM

..the trouble is, a lot of them went to school and university together...
..nothing like a bit of fagging for keeping people in line!!

spaceman
spaceman  105159 forum posts Wales3 Constructive Critique Points
6 Aug 2007 - 1:13 PM

And what a long line it is.

Graywolf
Graywolf  6964 forum posts United Kingdom
6 Aug 2007 - 1:38 PM

....LOL...

paulcr
paulcr e2 Member 91536 forum postspaulcr vcard Ireland9 Constructive Critique Points
6 Aug 2007 - 2:11 PM


Quote:

Everything ANY government does should be challenged, that's the job of the opposition and every citizen!!

Well said! Paul

paulcr
paulcr e2 Member 91536 forum postspaulcr vcard Ireland9 Constructive Critique Points
6 Aug 2007 - 2:12 PM


Quote: You can never trust ANY government completely.

The U.S. govt in particular.
Paul

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