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HS2 Rail line

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simmybear
simmybear  832 forum posts
28 Jan 2013 - 6:12 PM

Apart from all the controversy of the route HOW can it take 20 years to build a new railway when the original Birmingham to Manchester railway started in 1833 took 4 years using spades, wheelbarrows and human muscle power - ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!

Simmybear

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28 Jan 2013 - 6:12 PM

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chris.maddock
28 Jan 2013 - 6:17 PM

Ah, but nowadays it would be three years - the other seventeen are needed for detailed planning, objections, appeals, evicting protestors, etc, etc.
Wink

keithh
keithh  1022732 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 6:20 PM

Erm...Manchester to Birmingham took 6 years and opened in 1842.

simmybear
simmybear  832 forum posts
28 Jan 2013 - 6:25 PM

Ok six years I stand corrected it connected to another railway

Wikipedia - Authorised by Parliament in 1833 and designed by George Stephenson and Joseph Locke, the Grand Junction Railway opened for business on 4 July 1837, running for 82 miles (132 km) from Birmingham through Wolverhampton (via Perry Barr and Bescot), Stafford, Crewe, and Warrington, then via the existing Warrington and Newton Railway to join the Liverpool and Manchester Railway at a triangular junction at Newton Junction.

However the point is the same!

This country just cannot undertake big infrastructure projects any more without so much fannying about we still fall behind every other country by the time our trains run at 200 mph theirs will be at 300 mph.

I remember watching the HST prototype on the South Wales line in Gloucestershire in the 70's feeling an immense pride in British ground breaking engineering regular 125 mph services a dream come true - where did we go wrong!

In Belgium I remember seeing their TGV link to Brussels from Lille being built - they cut a swaithe 75 yards wide parallel to the existing track and devil take the hindmost if you were in the way - and Belgium is a crowded country - we are a laughing stock these days.

Stephenson, Brunel, Churchward, Gresley. Stanier and even Robert Riddles must be merrily rotating in their graves

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014008 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 7:05 PM

Oh yeah it's so annoying when vested interests can't run roughshod over the poor people like they did in the good old days...

Next they will be wanting a vote or their views to be considered..its the start of anarchy I tell you.

simmybear
simmybear  832 forum posts
28 Jan 2013 - 7:13 PM

Perhaps sometimes for the good of the many you have to restrict the rights of the few - after all no one will not be compensated for their losses.

Personally I wouldn't give a monkeys if a new railway went near my house, I usually need a cannon to wake me up at night and you get used to most things.

In Europe town and city councils compete for the benefits that strategic connections like High Speed rail bring.

I sadly think that if railways were invented today Britain would have none because of the consistent NIMBY-ism of the British public

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314819 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 7:22 PM

Anything got to be better than what we have now.

I can remember waiting for a train at Leeds and being told all trains heading south have been cancelled due to the theft of signalling lighting Smile

JJGEE
JJGEE  96207 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 7:31 PM

I have a new rail line opening in March where I live. Wink

The final link between Kingscote & East Grinstead on The Bluebell Railway Smile

It is not High Speed though Sad

Last Modified By JJGEE at 28 Jan 2013 - 7:33 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139385 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 7:36 PM


Quote: It is not High Speed though

A couple of years ago, I had the pleasure of being hauled on the East Coast main line by a Mallard-class steam loco at well over 100mph. Smile

I think yours will be limited to 25mph. Wink

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014008 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 7:47 PM


Quote: Perhaps sometimes for the good of the many you have to restrict the rights of the few - after all no one will not be compensated for their losses.

Perhaps, but what is wrong with taking the time to work out if this is the right approach and route?
It seems to me that you are placing a lot of trust in The Department of Transport to plan the best approach.

Funny I have recently been reading about the missing motorways of London, things like the M16/M12 etc that were supposed to form a series of motorway rings around the capital. All the same arguments were made about commerce/regeneration etc. that are made for HS2. Luckily most of them were not built due to local opposition. these days no one would seriously consider pushing a 6 lane motorway past Tower Bridge but in the 50s & 60s it was seriously planned for.

Bearing in mind that we are living with decisions made 180 years ago about where the railways should go, wouldn't it be prudent to make sure that what we build is actually right for the next 150 years?

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314819 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 7:51 PM

I don`t know why they don`t just upgrade the lines we already have, no land grab worries Smile

chris.maddock
28 Jan 2013 - 8:01 PM

IF all the curves and gradients are suitable for a high speed route then that would be a possibility - however, it'd probably take twice as long and cause absolute chaos on those existing, already congested lines with closures and diversions. Economically, that would be a non-starter.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314819 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 8:04 PM

Yes it was bad enough when the last tried upgrading the lines Smile

Ewanneil
Ewanneil  41118 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2013 - 8:21 PM


Quote: All the same arguments were made about commerce/regeneration etc. that are made for HS2. Luckily most of them were not built due to local opposition.

It seems to me that we are talking about providing better infrastructure for that part of the country which already has the best infrastructure in the UK.

Try living where I do. In my local authority region:-

There is not a single mile of motorway,
There are no railway stations,
There are no airports,
Broadband speeds are typically around 0.5MB
According to OFCOM there is no 3G coverage (never mind 4G)

And I only live 35 miles from Edinburgh. And my taxes are being used to subsidise yet more infrastructure improvements for a bunch of people who don't realise how bl**dy lucky they already are.

Sorry about the rant but this sort of thing really gets my goat.

chris.maddock
28 Jan 2013 - 8:21 PM


Quote: Yes it was bad enough when the last tried upgrading the lines Smile

Indeed, and this would be worse were they to try it - to start with most (if not all) of the overbridges would need replacing, possibly station platforms realigning too, because it's intended to accommodate the larger European rolling stock. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure if the current overhead knitting would be suitable so it could require all that to be replaced as well - then, possibly, modifications to other non-high speed stock so that could work with the new infrastructure. Starting afresh with a clean slate is almost certainly the best way to go.

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