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I hate zoos!!!

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alianar
alianar  482 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 10:32 AM


Quote: How about the keeping of animals for our pleasure, I.E. pets? Many farm animals only exist so we can eat them, should we all be vegetarians?

i think the idea of getting and raising animals to eat is fine because we need those proteins to survive and it is essentially part of the food chain

and keeping dogs is fine too as long as you know how to raise them and feed them properly. i mean at my local nature reserves there are many dogs who are calm and quiet and some who are noisy and viscous if you know how to raise them it should be ok.

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User_Removed
18 Aug 2010 - 10:42 AM


Quote: i think the idea of getting and raising animals to eat is fine because we need those proteins to survive and it is essentially part of the food chain

We don't. Many people survive very well without meat. Just because we can eat weaker animals (food chain) it doesn't mean that we have to. Ethics and Morals raise interesting questions.


Quote: and keeping dogs is fine too as long as you know how to raise them and feed them properly. i mean at my local nature reserves there are many dogs who are calm and quiet and some who are noisy and viscous if you know how to raise them it should be ok.

As has been said, zoos and their staff no how to raise and feed their animals properly.

roxpix
roxpix  102236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 10:45 AM

I believe today’s Zoos & wildlife parks are a fantastic concept & provide a huge amount of benefits to the animal species (both captive & wild), individual animals, species survival, wild habitat protection and human awareness

Those zoos that do not conduct themselves with the animals’ best interest as the driving factor will not be around long (& I repeat I’m not aware of this type in the UK)

While the original idea of zoos were more of a circus freak show when they started well over a hundred & fifty years ago, that could not be further from the truth today & the only similarity is in the name ‘Zoo’

alianar
alianar  482 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 11:03 AM

i think a really effective way of solving this problem is having stricter inspectors and guidlines for zoos.

roxpix
roxpix  102236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 11:28 AM


Quote: I think a really effective way of solving this problem is having stricter inspectors and guidlines for zoos.

Since the 1980’s all UK Zoos are regulated by the Zoo Licensing Act, so the guidelines & inspections are there

I ask again, what zoo/enclosure have you based your rant on?

There are loads of examples where animals have been mistreated (captive wildlife, livestock & pets) and this need to be dealt with but to rant about zoos in general is wrong. It would be like me tarnishing all teenagers as hoody troublemakers because of the bad ones!

alianar
alianar  482 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 11:34 AM


Quote: I ask again, what zoo/enclosure have you based your rant on?

i used to live in Newcastle and there was a very small zoo called jesmond dene and it was the worst one i have seen there were animals behind bars i dont know if it has changed since as i havent been to newcastle for a few years. london zoo was probably the best zoo.

KarenFB
KarenFB Junior Gallery Team 84245 forum postsKarenFB vcard England161 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 11:39 AM

I am sure all zoos have regular inspections - it's one of those things that happen and is not advertised at all - except when something has gone wrong!

Have you ever watched the series on television about 'Monkey World' link for info in Dorset. This 'zoo' was started by a husband and wife team (the husband has recently died, but his wife is still trying to keep the conservation going). They actively take in 'unwanted' pets and they go to places, such as Spain. Working with the Spanish Government they confiscate apes being used as photography props! You know the kind of thing, you're walking along the sea front and someone calls out "Have your photo taken with a chimp!" Now that is cruel!!!! Some of the things done to these innocent creatures are very cruel and unwarranted! Anyway, the Cronins bring the chimps back to their zoo and rehabilitated them - they are kept in large groups (as they would be in the wild). But the only way they can do this is by the generous donations/entrance fees of the visitors that visit.

Last Modified By KarenFB at 18 Aug 2010 - 11:44 AM
Sus
Sus  93183 forum posts England9 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 11:59 AM

Some really interesting points here, and I'm glad that many people have strong views on these topics, I do too, but sometimes its difficult to tease out the true differences in welfare for the individual animals.

I know of a lot of people doing good work with zoos, trying to improve the mental life of these captive animals. But I agree it often falls short of ideal. Monkey world is great, I've been there. But I've seen horrific repetative pacing of spectacled bears in Bolivia, that was many years ago, but I'm sure there are still bad zoos out there. Hopefully we're a bit more enlightened in the UK.

There is a difference between domesticated and tamed animals. Dogs have been domesticated; they have actually evolved to live co-dependently with man, and for many centuries man and dog worked together as a team, to hunt and farm more effectively than man could have alone. In many places dogs still have a valuable job to do, in some cases they are taking on new roles, for example as assistance dogs for the physically impaired, or in drug or bomb detection. We should really be thankful that such a talented and willing species has agreed to be a partner to man!

But also in modern society there is the dog that is kept purely as a companion, with no other job to do than that. Now that's ok, as far as it goes, the problem is that in many cases the evolution of the dog hasn't kept up with its changing role. So dogs that are kept as companions have got to be 'right for the job'. For example, Cavelier King Charles Spaniels apparently like to drape themselves around the owners chest and bury their faces into their necks, as they get comfort from feeling the heart beat of the owner. Try getting a border collie to do that, and he'd be like "What the...! Get away with it, I want a sheep to herd! (or agility course to run, or ball to chase...)!" Its trying to fit round pegs in square holes that's the problem. Like marrying an accountant and being surprised when he won't go on a skydiving holiday with you. (Ahhh, now I've really set myself up with that one, waits for angry skydiving accountants to start responding...)!

Alianar, I should add that in my opinion, one of the greatest welfare issues, in terms of amount of suffering, number of animals suffering, and humans willing to turn a blind eye, is in farming. I would highly recommend looking at Compassion in World Farming for some of the issues that they face. They recognise that people want to eat meat and dairy products, but that there are better ways to keep the animals than is currently done in many cases. There are also 'happier' options for those who care about where their meat and milk and eggs come from.

roxpix
roxpix  102236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 12:31 PM


Quote: I ask again, what zoo/enclosure have you based your rant on?

i used to live in Newcastle and there was a very small zoo called jesmond dene and it was the worst one i have seen there were animals behind bars i dont know if it has changed since as i havent been to newcastle for a few years. london zoo was probably the best zoo.

Well it looks like they heard you, Jesmond Dene pets corner (I’d hardly class it as a Zoo) is due to reopen in about 3 months after a year long refurbishment to replace the 50yr old buildings etc

Cant find any news stories to suggest animals were not cared for so perhaps it was simply the old buildings that gave the wrong impression

Looks good & seems like a substantial investment by the council for some pigs, chickens & goats!

Last Modified By roxpix at 18 Aug 2010 - 12:37 PM
alianar
alianar  482 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 1:09 PM

yes i mean zoos are being fixed but its things like karen and sus have said that needs changing.

Tooth
Tooth  95772 forum posts Ireland227 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 1:32 PM

I went to a zoo once, and all it had was one funny looking dog...
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...it was a Shitzu..

RoyBoy
RoyBoy  9162 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 2:03 PM

Read all this with interest. I think that animals in UK zoo's and other modern western countires are well looked after. If this were not the case Joe Public , Animal Rights and such like would soon raise the issue. I live in Colchester and they have an excellent zoo, with the amimals very well catered for.

What I have an issue with is that in some other countires where they do not share our views on animal welfare. Some years ago, whilst on holiday in Thailand, we stopped of during a river cruise through Bangkok to visit a "zoo". Poor things were in enclosures with very little vegatation or places for them to get a bit of peace and quiet. That I find very disagreeable and had to come away.
Roy

User_Removed
18 Aug 2010 - 5:24 PM

There is no good need for zoos. There's bad needs for zoos, where humans have stuffed up ecological niches, but there is no good reason for caging animals, irrespective of how well they are looked after. It's a bizarre, victorian, anthropomorphological hangover.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110150 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 6:26 PM

So you would do what Chris?

User_Removed
18 Aug 2010 - 10:11 PM

Do ? Well, it's a bit late for that Grin

It's difficult. In an ideal world the practice would be banned and phased out but the risk to endangered species, human created endangered species that is, would be too great so it needs to continue under some form of controlled licence and operate in the same way that seed banks currently operate.

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