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if compact camera can take such good quality photo, why do we have to spend thous...

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iancrowson
iancrowson e2 Member 4211 forum postsiancrowson vcard United Kingdom129 Constructive Critique Points
7 Mar 2013 - 7:43 PM


Quote: You wouldn't an expensive DSLR+lenses to Cuba? And why?: D Tony?

Various reason including the reduction in hand luggage allowance by Virgin Atlantic to 7 kilos, by the time I get a laptop plus a D800 and a few lens and flash in my camera rucksac I can hardly lift it.
But mainly because I wanted to be discreet, I have the Fuji on a wrist strap and can keep it fairly out of sight and when seen it's small unlike a big DSLR and big lens. For photographing people, often candid, it gets more natural results, people don't notice it or are not scared of it.
Also I ventured off the tourist routes a bit and in some areas of central Havana I would have stuck out like a sore thumb with a mine's bigger than yours job round my neck.
Crime rate in Cuba is low but the people are poor by our standards.
The Fuji sensor and lens are really good, I cropped away some images to less than half and can still get great A4 prints. In fact I wish at times I I did not have the D800 and stuff, it's good for the macro I do, but most of the time it's like a lead weight.

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7 Mar 2013 - 7:43 PM

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ChrisV
ChrisV  7783 forum posts United Kingdom26 Constructive Critique Points
7 Mar 2013 - 10:58 PM


Quote: The Fuji XE1 isn't a compact - none of the CSCs are including the GF1 [and I owned one of those with the 20mm lens - a cracking combination]

The GF2 and the GF3 is, I believe the GF2 is about 18% smaller than the GF1, the GF3 is even smaller.

The newer GF`s are certainly compact enough to class as compacts when fitted with the 14mm or 20mm pancakes lenses, its one of the reasons I got myself one.


Top Fuji x10 compact, bottom Panasonic GF2 + 14mm Pancake..

Paul, just because some 'compacts' are too big to fit in a normal pocket, it doesn't mean small CSCs that will only fit into a large coat pocket with a pancake lens fitted are either. The GX1 is the real successor to the GF1 and its pretty much the same size. The reason it is the true successor is not just the premium build quality, it's really about the level of external control that let more experienced photographers dictate the settings they want far more efficiently. I own an EPL1 (which I bought as a cheap way of using the 20mm pancake when my GF1 was stolen) and have handled GF2/3s. I've never taken to these because they're frustrating cameras to use unless you're content to employ them largely as point and shoots. They aren't that much smaller that I wouldn't always prefer using the GX1.


Quote: The two main influences on technical image quality* are sensor size and lens quality - not necessarily in that order.
Unfortunately both these things have consequences for the bulk of the equipment

Not any more.

Yes, still. (Which is just as ridiculously obtuse a response as your bald, unjustified statement - but the difference is I've actually given a rationale you've never articulated a contradiction of).

The advantages of compact cameras are 1) they're compact; and 2) they will give you greater depth of focus if that's either what you want or you're too incompetent a photographer to take control of your zone of focus.

Last Modified By ChrisV at 7 Mar 2013 - 10:59 PM
Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 Mar 2013 - 11:19 PM


Quote: Paul, just because some 'compacts' are too big to fit in a normal pocket, it doesn't mean small CSCs that will only fit into a large coat pocket with a pancake lens fitted are either.

Yes, still. (Which is just as ridiculously obtuse a response as your bald, unjustified statement - but the difference is I've actually given a rationale you've never articulated a contradiction of

I thought we were talking about compacts, your now going on about sub compacts, there is a huge difference.

What are you now saying, compacts are not compacts, guess you best raise a report to inform the editorial team of there mistakes.

Here`s that picture again, what bit did you not understand.
2-p1010073.jpg


Quote: and have handled GF2/3s. I've never taken to these because they're frustrating cameras to use unless you're content to employ them largely as point and shoots

Guess this was down to you, the person playing with a camera who is not advanced enough to understand how to use it.

If you really had used the GF2 as you claim, you would know that most of the important controls are still easy to get at using buttons, you do talk a load of crap Smile

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 7 Mar 2013 - 11:22 PM
ChrisV
ChrisV  7783 forum posts United Kingdom26 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 10:39 AM

Paul, I must be a fool for continuing a fruitless conversation with someone who is so ignorant on so many levels. I don't know which editorial team you're talking about, but when 'there'* talking about compacts if they mean CSCs they have a different understanding of what a compact is from the industry at large.

*You really should start thinking about your elementary grammar if you want to be taken seriously. That's not the sort of thing I would normally point out, but I don't think accusing people of 'talking crap' whilst writing like a nine year old is very credible - it makes your literary and emotional maturity look evenly matched.

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 11:41 AM

Chris/Paul - I suggest you guys cool down a little. It really isn't worth a slanging match.

Ian

Steppenwolf
8 Mar 2013 - 2:06 PM

I wonder if the CSC's are ever going to get their own long prime lenses. At the moment the trouble with M4/3, NEX and Nikon 1 systems is that they lack decent telephoto lenses. Also M4/3 hasn't got round to PDAF (although I guess that's in the pipeline) unlike Nikon and Sony. It seems to me that with a few decent long prime lenses the case for ditching APS-C (and FF) would be a lot stronger. Or do people just have to get an adaptor and stick their FF lenses on these CSCs.

Last Modified By Steppenwolf at 8 Mar 2013 - 2:07 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 2:12 PM


Quote: I wonder if the CSC's are ever going to get their own long prime lenses

Olympus have 4/3 lenses, e.g. 150mm/F2.0 (=300mm on FF) and 300mm/f2.8 (=600mm on FF). These have to be used with an adaptor on M4/3 but you do retain all functions including AF.

Only a matter of time, I would have thought, before M4/3 versions of these 4/3 lenses are introduced.

pulsar69
pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 2:37 PM

A compact camera CANT take a quality photo the same as a big DSLR , which is why my Leica D Lux 5 is currently up for sale and I have just bought a 5D3.

ChrisV
ChrisV  7783 forum posts United Kingdom26 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 2:52 PM

There's also the [forthcoming? Is it available yet?] Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 [70-200 FoV eq]

That looks like quite a nice lens, as does their 12-35 f2.8. So far if you want fast zooms without adapters [and those using adapters reputedly have very slow AF performance on m4/3], these are the only game in town. Without fast 'standard lenses' m4/3 are going to be further hampered in comparison to larger formats teamed with better glass. As it is, even with a similarly wide aperture, for the same compositional equivalence you are going to get deeper areas of focus by almost two stops. That's great for landscapes of course, but not so good for portraits or artfully isolated objects.

I'm not claiming it's impossible to get subject isolation with 4/3 sensors, just that it's not as easy to achieve, or there is as much opportunity. At any given point in development, unless Olympus or Panasonic somehow take a massive technological leap forward, they're also not likely to offer as much dynamic range or as much capability in low light situations as similar generation larger formats [especially 35mm - which is four times the sensor area]. It doesn't take a genius to work this out.

I do like the format though - it offers [for me] a compromise between quality and weight/bulk that will increasingly make it viable as a professional format [especially as a choice of better optics become available] . But in assessing these things it's always best to do so realistically.

Last Modified By ChrisV at 8 Mar 2013 - 2:53 PM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 2:54 PM

The point about compact cameras is that they are more likely to be with you when you see a photographic opportunity. That is the reason for owning one.

Many people find their mobile phones suffice these days - hence a big drop in compact camera sales over the past year according to AP (- 34%).

lemmy
lemmy  71867 forum posts United Kingdom
8 Mar 2013 - 3:23 PM


Quote: I wonder if the CSC's are ever going to get their own long prime lenses.

Panasonic have a 150mm f2.8 in the offing. I have the 12-35 and 35-100 f2.8 zooms. They are good lenses but what is especially pleasing is that even coupled with my GH3 camera body they weigh in at less than most larger format 70-200 f2.8 zooms on their own. The 2 lenses plus GH3 weigh in at 250gms less than just the Nikon 70-200 f2.8. That is a massive bonus when you are traveling around London by tube and bus or on a bicycle.

The extra depth of field isn't such a problem if you know what you are doing but I find it is just as often a bonus.

Since my stuff is for web or news/ magazine print I don't need the kind of quality that FF can give. I don't do 20x16 prints and my largest monitor is only 2000 odd px across so even on my GH3 I'm discarding half the pixels.

As ChrisV says, it's a sensible compromise between the questionable quality of compact and the higher quality of FF. On a technical front, I love the ease of operating, focusing, controlling the camera from an iPad. Stunning.

pulsar69
pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 4:05 PM


Quote: The point about compact cameras is that they are more likely to be with you when you see a photographic opportunity. That is the reason for owning one.

Many people find their mobile phones suffice these days - hence a big drop in compact camera sales over the past year according to AP (- 34%).

Agreed !

Except , i started to not want to take out the leica dlux5 as when i look at the photos afterwards even when theyre just out and about snaps it still annoys me that they could have been better , therefore once sold i will be buying a pancake lens for the 5d3 and sling that in a smaller bag ! job solved .....

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 4:09 PM


Quote: You really should start thinking about your elementary grammar if you want to be taken seriously. That's not the sort of thing I would normally point out, but I don't think accusing people of 'talking crap' whilst writing like a nine year old is very credible - it makes your literary and emotional maturity look evenly matched

I`m not interested in all your crap Chris, someone needs to grow up.


Quote: Panasonic have a 150mm f2.8 in the offing

And Sigma have a 60mm on the way, it might not be very long but its a start, I`m not to keen on the price of the 75mm, and I don`t need a macro.


Quote: The extra depth of field isn't such a problem if you know what you are doing but I find it is just as often a bonus

Exactly Smile

lemmy
lemmy  71867 forum posts United Kingdom
8 Mar 2013 - 4:23 PM


Quote: once sold i will be buying a pancake lens for the 5d3 and sling that in a smaller bag ! job solved

I had a Pentax K5 which I loved - apart from the size and weight of the high speed and long zoom lenses (though lovely quality). But they do a great series of genuinely small pancake lenses, one of which, the 70mm f2.4 was among the best lenses I've ever had.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Mar 2013 - 4:27 PM

Or the dinky GF2/GF3 fitted with the 14mm Smile

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