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Quote: suffering that is being caused by this debt and the austerity measures that are being put in place is a form of control. It's not real, there's not a warehouse somewhere that's waiting to have all this money put back into it, it's just figures on a computer system that someone is manipulating. The world could right it all off this afternoon and tomorrow the sun would still rise over the planet.
Very intesting topic indeed; we need barter to exchange work for goods etc. but without money in some form what motivation would the electricity inductry have to supply us electricity.
As its an essential we could nationailise it, but we would still need some barter currency for trade around the world.
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Quote: And the nice lifestyle is, in any case, built on a mountain of quicksand.
Wrong. My 'nice lifestyle' is built on 43 yrs hard graft (the last 21 of those 43 years were spent working in one of the 'strategic' industries that CB mentioned).
That's 43 yrs paying into the system and never borrowing more than I could afford to repay.
And before anyone says it, 'luck' played no part.
Who can we trust?
I can't trust elected bodies as they campaign for short term issues and rarely know how to deliver on promises.
I can't trust corporations too much, though their shareholders interests are longer term, they employ people who may only be present for a few years.
I can't trust religion as it will typically be intolerant of other religions or have no know agenda on how to nourish the body as well as the soul.
I can't trust ourselves as what I want changes throughout my life and with my understanding.
I may be able to trust the law a bit as its slow moving and has many intelligent parties advising it, though it now seems more changeable by the whims of the government and what the newspapers tell us is public opinion.
We should recognise that no one really knows enough to manage the issues and that complex controlled interactions will always be open to abuse and failure.
In any large system that need general human understanding, simple, loosely coupled, understandable components need defining that can be understood by the majority that vote in the democracy that rely on the system.
Otherwise you will have to trust someone else - so make yourself understand it, make it understandable or just give up and do what you are told.
[quote]That's 43 yrs paying into the system and never borrowing more than I could afford to repay.[quote]
Well I've been there and done that yet one day you go into work and are made redundant and then 2 years later despite over 400 applications for all sorts of jobs you're sitting there without a home, a car and a mountain of debt. So whilst you may currently have your toes on the rug just be careful life doesn't just pull it from underneath you. Lots of people are in this situation through no fault of their own.
Quote: and are made redundant
I was made redundant on three occasions, the last time was the 'last' (i.e I took early retirement). I always saw redundancy as a fresh opportunity.
However you obviously survived financially which is the point I was making.
It seems that my government is happy to make people and service dependant on them for their ongoing existence as long as they can keep raises taxes elsewhere to support this. Yep this is unsustainable, particularly with a global economy and transient workforce.
For most of us we struggle to reduce our exposure to debt & costs - but government seems minded to spend its way out of its costs leaving lots of people left behind - this is where i believe we have been fooled by corporations.
We school potential earners to contribute skills and cash to our economy but recently we seem to constantly have failed to produce enough skilled people to industry, so companies migrate away from the UK or source skills elsewhere.
I can't help but feel we keep voting people in who don't care for our future or at least donít understand how to ensure itís the best it can be. I'd love to suggest someone to vote for but i just don't know who!
What we need is a new "ism", radical thinking. One bit of info I heard in the Norwegian tragedy is that their country is debt free, even in this world chrisis they did it right (please don't let the nutter spoil their example of economic prowess). So it can be done.
Quote: Norwegian tragedy is that their country is debt free,
Norway is not in the EU......... say no more!
However, the cost of living is a lot higher. For instance, the last time I was there, a couple of years ago, a beer cost approx. £5.
My late uncle, who was a marine engineer, lived for a couple of decades in Norway, but once he retired he moved from there - the cost of living was much too high for his modest pension.
Quote: their country is debt free, even in this world chrisis they did it right (please don't let the nutter spoil their example of economic prowess). So it can be done.
its a simple process of living within their means and not wasting money but investing it wisely in their own infrastructure. (something that we forgot about several generations back in this country)
Norway's total population is just a little over half that of London. Much easier to keep a grip on things.
That said, most UK residents would be shocked at what they have to pay for many goods over there. And property ownership, which we tend to take for granted in the UK, is certainly not taken for granted there.
There is a price to pay for living strictly within your means - at all times. Do we have the will to pay that price? I somehow doubt it. The slightest cuts to public expenditure and the screams are heard all over the land.
Quote: I'd love to suggest someone to vote for but i just don't know who!
I voted for UKIP, a wasted vote many would say, but at least I did not vote LIB Dem or conservative
Personally I think we need a new world order. A philosophy that puts people first, not profit. Imagine.
The trouble is some people put themselves - and their own wealth and power - first. And they are the ones who tend to become leaders.
Your Average Joe/Joanna is not interested in putting their heads above the parapet.
Quote: There is a price to pay for living strictly within your means - at all times
I would suggest there is an even bigger price for not doing so!
(A lot of us in the UK have managed to live within our means throughout our lives, the problem is we get swamped by those who seem to have retained the adolescent belief that they can have it all, NOW and ITS NOT FAIR if they have to suffer the consequences of their actions)
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