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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139385 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 4:14 PM

That's sad to hear Paul. But wouldn't it be a bit awkward if you found yourself in a situation where, with income benefits, housing benefits, council tax benefits etc etc, you found yourself in a position where if one of you went to work you might only be pennies better off or, just conceivably, worse off?

That is the situation in which some unemployed people find themselves in. Arguably, they are not primarily to blame for it. It is the benefits system which has put them in that position.

As for jobs, there are plenty around being done by people from countries elsewhere in the EU:

Q. Why aren't Brits doing those jobs?
A. They are better off (or almost as well off) on benefits. Or they have become so used to a life on benefits, it is seen a "right" of some sort.

We have to remember: the government has no money... not a single penny. All benefits are paid for by current taxation (and borrowing!), viz taxes on those who work and indeed many who are on pension.

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7 May 2011 - 4:14 PM

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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314810 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 4:47 PM


Quote: As for jobs, there are plenty around being done by people from countries elsewhere in the EU

Very true CB, but I found out by chance, these jobs often pay at a great deal below minimum wage, I recently applied for a job in a kitchen I am that desperate, only to find they wanted to pay me no more than 4/4.50 an hour and they went on to say it would be cash in hand so no tax or national insurance, I turned it down Sad

collywobles
7 May 2011 - 4:52 PM


Quote: Very true CB, but I found out by chance, these jobs often pay at a great deal below minimum wage, I recently applied for a job in a kitchen I am that desperate, only to find they wanted to pay me no more than 4/4.50 an hour and they went on to say it would be cash in hand so no tax or national insurance, I turned it down Sad

1) Minimum wage is a legal requirement unless other benefits are included such as accomodation.

2) Did you report them?

SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 4:52 PM

Paul - just as well. Sorry to hear you're having bad times. Bunch of crooks, offering less than min wage and no tax or insurance.

I think anyone who is enough up themselves to criticise those who are out of work and claiming benefits need a reality check. It can happen to anyone. And not everyone currently has a decent enough income to put enough aside for a rainy day to last for the typical length of unemployment.

There but for the grace of ...

Last Modified By SuziBlue at 7 May 2011 - 4:53 PM
Fishnet
Fishnet  104976 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 4:54 PM


Quote: 'If you were out of work the benefit system would not pay your mortgage '



Not correct. On certain benefits e.g. income support, or income based JSA the interest on a mortgage is paid after a waiting period.

That's not true. After 16 weeks of being on benefits you can have your mortgage interest paid, you still have to pay the rest of your mortgage yourself out of your benefits and bear in mind the Government thinks the minimum needed to survive is 67 a week so that's what they give you.

If you have children you get Child Benefit, which working people also get, and child tax credits, which working people also get.

Last Modified By Fishnet at 7 May 2011 - 4:55 PM
Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314810 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 4:55 PM


Quote: Did you report them?

Not worth the hassle, it would only end up as my word against there`s.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139385 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 5:00 PM


Quote: these jobs often pay at a great deal below minimum wage

A recent survey of such jobs showed this was, actually, not generally the case - although it is undoubtedly so in some instances.

There are plenty of reputable firms run by, and employing, EU nationals which play it by the book. They generally prefer to employ people from their own country because they regard Brits as lazy and incompetent.

In fact some such firms are now - probably reluctantly - offering work to UK nationals. The long-established car wash outfit I use is run by Eastern Europeans: they have a proper office, accept credit cards and are registered for VAT. They recently took on a young British person; I've noticed his non-British colleagues shout at him a lot to get him to do more work, and to do it properly! Grin

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314810 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 5:05 PM


Quote: A recent survey of such jobs showed this was, actually, not generally the case - although it is undoubtedly so in some instances

Unless employers our policed and checked upon in a sort of covert way, how would we ever know what is really going on.

I`ve seen a lot CB, makes me feel quite sick Sad

The situation is only going to get worse

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1362451/100k-Eastern-European-migrants-f...

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 7 May 2011 - 5:07 PM
Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314810 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 5:11 PM

Figures last year showed there are already more than 32,000 children living in eastern Europe whose parents receive child benefit in Britain.


Its all so wrong Sad

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139385 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 5:55 PM


Quote: Unless employers our policed and checked upon in a sort of covert way, how would we ever know what is really going on.

As well as its taxing responsibilities, HMRC has a duty to check on compliance with the minimum wage and will often combine several functions in a single visit. Not a lotta people know that! Wink


Quote: Its all so wrong

Indeed, but it is not accidental. It is part of globalisation which, inevitably, has to take place in stages.

The one hope is that the euro zone collapses, followed by the collapse of the EU itself. In the short term that would be very uncomfortable for its members, including the UK, but it would halt the march towards centralism.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314810 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 6:23 PM


Quote: The one hope is that the euro zone collapses, followed by the collapse of the EU itself. In the short term that would be very uncomfortable for its members, including the UK, but it would halt the march towards centralism

Yet so few voted for UKIP Smile

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102236 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 6:36 PM

Let's face it, the minimum wage is far too low, anyway, and so it's hardly surprising that so many remain on the dole.
I think that whatever the number of dole cheats, scroungers, etc. the government should be putting more emphasis on regulating and keeping firmly in check, big business and the banks in particular.
Logically it seems to me that the most important way of creating a more just and harmonious society, is to tax the rich much more and redistribute the wealth - I know this point has been laboured many times but that is because the politicians and media just don't get it or more to the point, they seem to wilfully ignore this fact of life because they are self-seekers and afraid of losing votes. Surely a healthy economy, let alone a healthy society, is dependent on how much fairness and respect we afford all our citizens.
It's not rocket science and I fear my points will be borne out only too graphically in the coming months/years as riots and crime will increase tenfold as the cuts really start to bite.
The nation's economic housing stock should never have been allowed to stagnate while mortgages went sky-high.

As to immigration: well maybe if we paid our own people a decent minimum wage they would take jobs more readily and obviate the need for so much imported labour.
Last, but not least, the media should be emphasising the stupidity and cost of supporting so many unecessary wars - ostensibly "humanitarian interventions" - yeah, right.

Garth

SimplySimon
7 May 2011 - 6:59 PM

Nuff said.Nail on the head!

collywobles
7 May 2011 - 7:25 PM


Quote: Logically it seems to me that the most important way of creating a more just and harmonious society, is to tax the rich much more and redistribute the wealth - I know this point has been laboured many times but that is because the politicians and media just don't get it or more to the point, they seem to wilfully ignore this fact of life because they are self-seekers and afraid of losing votes

I would put it to you that your so called rich are taxed enough. Its a 40% tax on everything earned over 44K and 50% over 150K -- surely taxing nearly half is more than a fair rate. Dont forget its the rich who provide and create the jobs that you and I might have.


Quote: As to immigration: well maybe if we paid our own people a decent minimum wage they would take jobs more readily and obviate the need for so much imported labour.

.... and what do you think a fair wage would be, bearing in mind that any increase in labour costs will be passed onto you and I, hiking prices across the board and increasing inflation -- a back to square one situation.

The imigrants take jobs because they are prepared to work hard and support their families, those UK or as you quote "our own people" on benefits are very welcome to do these jobs, but of course most wont - will they. They would sooner sit on their arse and collect benifits.

Its all very well being a socialist but robbing and envying the rich is not the way. People have to take responsibility for their own lives.

Colin

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314810 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
7 May 2011 - 7:34 PM


Quote: The imigrants take jobs because they are prepared to work hard and support their families, those UK or as you quote "our own people" on benefits are very welcome to do these jobs, but of course most wont - will they. They would sooner sit on their arse and collect benifits

It simple really, many are prepared to work for less than minimal wage, and pay no tax or national insurance, they can also claim for child benefit for children that have never seen the uk.

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