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paulcookphotography

I once lost out on a promotion, which basically froze me out of any chances of taking my job any further due to a comment once made as a passing remark.

I had been chatting on a night out with colleagues and at the time i was dating someone who was foreign. Something was said about the future and in a joking reply, i said that if we won the lottery we would move to where she was from.

I was asked in my interview where i saw my future, and i commented that i was happy in the company and looked forward to hopefully developing my career with them

When i got the news that i missed out on the promotion, my manager (one of the two who interviewed me) said that there concern was that i might not be a long term investment for that position, and they decided to hire someone with less experience and train them up. It left me with nowhere to go in that job, so i eventually took a promotion with another company.

So sometimes even innocent comments can be taken out of context and influence the decisions of others. On that occasion it was a comment during a works night out, but it could just have easily been a post on facebook.

As i said, its not all about folk abusing their position, pulling sickies, or bitching. Some information may not need to be private but seen by the wrong person, and misunderstood, it can have consequences

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19 Dec 2012 - 5:16 PM

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mikehit
mikehit  56454 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 5:18 PM

So how would the company then use the FB details they have been given? And what for? If there is no defined reason for collecting the information they are not allowed to collect it under the Data Protection Act.

Does the scale of the theoretical problems you envisage really warrant such an intrusion into peoples' private lives? It all smacks of overkill to me. Would you expect someone to declare which parties they are going to and which social groups they belong to?

KevSB
KevSB  101407 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 5:20 PM


Quote:

For example, if a company made it policy that all employees must give details of facebook accounts, then an employee signs a contract and agrees (or disagrees and refuses the job/leaves). Should a potential employee have to delete their sexuality (for example) from their facebook page in case it effects their application? NO! They may choose to do it if they get the job, but nobody should be in a position where they have to hide who they are in order to GET a job (providing they are not breaking any law in doing so).

Companys were doing this until recently then a high court judge decreed it was illiegal and an employer can not demand access, what information you disclose on facebook is entirely your own bussness and you chose who has access. Peaple have a hibit of giving far to much information on facebook, I personally delete everything after a few days for exactly this reason.
I was told by my current employer they use facebook to check out anyone who is sick and what they was doing.

You would be hard pressed to prove it was due to facebook

mikehit
mikehit  56454 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 5:23 PM


Quote: So sometimes even innocent comments can be taken out of context and influence the decisions of others. On that occasion it was a comment during a works night out, but it could just have easily been a post on facebook.

As I said - be careful what you say, who you say it to and where. Unfortunately you gave your employer a simple way of whittling down their selection process - if it had not been that it would have been something else (believe me!).

paulcookphotography


Quote:

Youe still haven't answered my point:

"Quite, so we have to credit most employers with the sense not to discriminate on such criteria in face-to-face interviews, and if we do, then I see no logical reason why the same should not be true for other public domain information."



Because the colour of someone's skin is visual, and not something that an individual can choose to divulge about themselves. An employer cannot ask an applicant if they are gay (in this example), but by looking at FB and finding that info (and using it) they are taking personal (not private) info and using it against them

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315347 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 5:25 PM


Quote: So how would the company then use the FB details they have been given? And what for? If there is no defined reason for collecting the information they are not allowed to collect it under the Data Protection Act

Why, its public information.

mikehit
mikehit  56454 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 5:27 PM

To use the FB details Pual proposes would require the account details to be databased. That has to be justified.
If the employer goes looking for it that is a different matter.

paulcookphotography


Quote: So how would the company then use the FB details they have been given? And what for? If there is no defined reason for collecting the information they are not allowed to collect it under the Data Protection Act.

Does the scale of the theoretical problems you envisage really warrant such an intrusion into peoples' private lives? It all smacks of overkill to me. Would you expect someone to declare which parties they are going to and which social groups they belong to?

Wow wow wow!

Remember, i am against FB being used to vet/profile/spy on people. Personally i would prefer if people stopped being so paranoid, but you asked how to police something you accept

mikehit
mikehit  56454 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 5:42 PM


Quote: i am against FB being used to vet/profile/spy on people.

That much is clear Smile

But social media is so new everyone has so much to learn about the pros and cons.
I remember when AIDS first came to social awareness - Insurance companies wanted all details of sexuality, blood tests etc. Now they hardly bother. I see attitudes to social media developing the same way



Quote: but you asked how to police something you accept

I don't think it should be policed at all - making it illegal (as you suggested) is pointless without it being policed which is why I asked.


Quote: Personally i would prefer if people stopped being so paranoid,

Hmm.....

Last Modified By mikehit at 19 Dec 2012 - 5:43 PM
lemmy
lemmy  71869 forum posts United Kingdom
19 Dec 2012 - 5:59 PM


Quote: So sometimes even innocent comments can be taken out of context and influence the decisions of others

We all do that without even knowing it. We are easy creatures to influence. Often we are influenced subconsciously. It can't be changed, we just need to be aware of what messages we are sending out.

We can't always blame other people for things.

mikehit
mikehit  56454 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 6:18 PM


Quote: According to a new study from recruitment-technology firm Jobvite, a whopping 92% of recruiters use social media today. Although LinkedIn is the most popular destination, two-thirds of respondents say they now use Facebook and more than half say they use Twitter.



LOL!

That reminds me many years ago, someone developed the 'chocolate digestive' technique. On the assumption that everyones favuouite biscuit was the chocolate digestive,offer the candidate a plate of mixed biscuits with their tea/coffee/water. If they chose the digestive they are assertive, if they choose another type they are deferential.
Twonks.

Perhaps they are not on FB because they are too busy meeting real people Smile

thewilliam
19 Dec 2012 - 6:21 PM

I can understand why employers would want Facebook login info. It can be very disruptive, time consuming and expensive to make a bad hiring decision. Applicants are effectively on their best behaviour on their CV, application form and at the interview. Their FB page can show who and what they really are and what company they keep. FB is very likely to give them the answers to all sorts of questions that the discrimination laws won't allow them to ask.

Many employers might want to avoid hiring an applicant who's pregnant but daren't ask any questions about family plans at any stage of the recruitment process.

oldblokeh
oldblokeh  3816 forum posts United Kingdom
19 Dec 2012 - 6:29 PM


Quote: Youe still haven't answered my point:

"Quite, so we have to credit most employers with the sense not to discriminate on such criteria in face-to-face interviews, and if we do, then I see no logical reason why the same should not be true for other public domain information."



Because the colour of someone's skin is visual, and not something that an individual can choose to divulge about themselves. An employer cannot ask an applicant if they are gay (in this example), but by looking at FB and finding that info (and using it) they are taking personal (not private) info and using it against them

That's totally beside the point. Discrimination in either case is illegal as we are both agreed. A candidate might choose to go for interview in drag. Same argument applies.

Let me ask you this: do you think that a prospective employee should have the right to investigate his or her prospective employer though public domain material? Financial position via Companies House, perhaps? Or by looking to see how many employees have claimed unfair dismissal? Perhaps they might be interested in the views of the personnel director in his or her public Facebook presence to se if they match what they tell you in the recruitment material? If so, why should the company not have the right to, for instance, check whether your public domain information agrees with, or contradicts your CV? It's been estimated the lying on CVs costs British industry upwards of 2 billion per year.

paulcookphotography


Quote: So sometimes even innocent comments can be taken out of context and influence the decisions of others

We all do that without even knowing it. We are easy creatures to influence. Often we are influenced subconsciously. It can't be changed, we just need to be aware of what messages we are sending out.

We can't always blame other people for things.

true, we all do it and mostly without intention. And to a certain extent, we have to be careful with what we say. However, i have to say that in my situation, a comment taken out of context about what you would do if you won the lottery is hardly a serious answer to where you see yourself in 5 years

We might not be able to blame people for other things, but those who are in a position of 'power' have to take the responsibility seriously. I am sure any of us could look at a facebook page of someone we dont know and get see a post that we take in the wrong way or misunderstand. Thats human nature. Its what you then do with it that involves human error and ethics

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